We Can Move Up To 3rd In All-Time Winning Percentages This Year!

[ktffan]

I haven't disputed that. My point is, you're quibbling with me about 3 games even where MY data supports YOUR orginal point.

I found it humorous you are "validating" the NCAA with a "who cares?" site.

Anyway, "official" does not require the conclusion "Error free"

Of course not, but official is official and it's what everybody who matters will accept.

Tell me this, what is Stassen's motivation to be wrong?

I don't know that you have to be motivated to be wrong.

Then, riddle me this, did OSU win a National Title in 1961? 1970? Why? Why not?

The NCAA calls them a consensus champion. I'd say yes.

How about Michigan's 1901 Championship? Does it count?

In 1992, The NCAA published their record book and called them as such.

Who did you like in 1928, Detroit, Georgia Tech or Southern Cal?

By the same source, in 1928, Georgia Tech and Southern Cal, although they do note Detroit's championship, so why not?

 

[ktffan]

Wrong. It's a voluntary organization which has abosolutely no control what happened before its inception...zero, zip, zilch, nada.

You even admitted earlier that the NCAA record book has no record of game-by-game results like cfbdatawarehouse and stassen do...those site did something that the NCAA decided not to do: actual fucking research.

You have no clue how the NCAA keeps their records, do you?

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I'm not validating the NCAA, dipstick, I'm supporting your damn point. What is the neuron that is failing to connect there in your skull?

Official is not "what everyone will accept" The official word is that we went in to Iraq for WMD.... Not everyone accepts that, do they. As Mili said, they simply DID NOT do the research, in fact, they got it from somewhere, and those sources are just as likely to be in error as Stassen.

I note you skipped over Yale and Harvard in my 1901 question.

<TABLE border=1><TBODY><TR><TD bgColor=#c0c0c0 colSpan=8>

1901-Yale (Independent)​

</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>9/28</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Trinity (Connecticut) (1-6-1)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>23</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/2</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Amherst (4-6-2)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>6</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/5</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Tufts (6-6-1)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>29</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>5</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/9</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Wesleyan (3-6-1)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>24</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/12</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>@</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Navy (6-4-1)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>24</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/16</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Bowdoin (2-7)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>45</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/19</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Penn State (5-3)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>22</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/22</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Bates (3-3)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>21</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10/26</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Columbia (8-5)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>10</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>5</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>11/2</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>@</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Army (5-1-2)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>T</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>5</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>5</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>11/9</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Orange A.C. (non-IA)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>30</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>11/16</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>vs.</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Princeton (9-1-1)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>W</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>12</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD></TR><TR><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>11/23</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>@</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>Harvard (12-0)</TD><TD bgColor=#00ff00>L</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>0</TD><TD align=right bgColor=#00ff00>22</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Looks like Yale lost to Harvard... but wait:

THE NCAA RECOGNIZES THE FOLLOWING:

1901
Harvard: Billingsley
Michigan: Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation
Yale: Parke Davis

Source

See, fact is, the NCAA isnt' recongnizing anything. And that is where you're "Yeah, but this is official" bs loses any force. In other words, the NCAA didn't call Michigan the 1901 Champ.. Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Did.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

You have no clue how the NCAA keeps their records, do you?

Obviously you don't. You said: "The NCAA calls them a consensus champion. I'd say yes." in reference to Buckeyeskickbuttocks' question "did OSU win a National Title in 1961? 1970? Why? Why not?" First off, the NCAA does not and never has awarded national titles in D-IA football...they do in divisions I-AA, II, and III, but not I-A. Second, neither the AP nor the then-UPI polls awarded Ohio State a title in either of those years, and those two entities are the most-widely recognized title-awarders, so if they didn't give us the titles in those years it could hardly be a "consensus". Hope you can swim, 'cuz you're sinking fast...

 

[ktffan]

I'm not validating the NCAA, dipstick, I'm supporting your damn point.

Yes, we are in agreement here. Your wording was you were "confirming" the NCAA. I'm not sure I'd use a non-official source to do that.

Official is not "what everyone will accept" The official word is that we went in to Iraq for WMD.... Not everyone accepts that, do they. As Mili said, they simply DID NOT do the research, in fact, they got it from somewhere, and those sources are just as likely to be in error as Stassen.

Where do you think stassen get's his information? Come on, he's taking it from the same place, and just makes mistakes. I've sent him several corrections myself, and he's got even more errors, but that's no big deal, just why take what he does as gospel? Besides, at issue in these cases are not "mistakes", but this is strictly his opinion.

I note you skipped over Yale and Harvard in my 1901 question.

I thought the question was about Michigan. Yes, the same NCAA sources that lists Michigan also lists Yale. Havard also gets entries in the current book.

See, fact is, the NCAA isnt' recongnizing anything. And that is where you're "Yeah, but this is official" bs loses any force. In other words, the NCAA didn't call Michigan the 1901 Champ.. Helms, Houlgate, National Championship Foundation Did.

And the NCAA followed suit and called Michigan champion because of the selectors that picked them.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Where do you think stassen get's his information?

Apparently not from the NCAA's "all encompassing" record book...

 

[ktffan]

Obviously you don't. You said: "The NCAA calls them a consensus champion. I'd say yes." in reference to Buckeyeskickbuttocks' question "did OSU win a National Title in 1961? 1970? Why? Why not?" First off, the NCAA does not and never has awarded national titles in D-IA football...they do in divisions I-AA, II, and III, but not I-A. Second, neither the AP nor the then-UPI polls awarded Ohio State a title in either of those years, and those two entities are the most-widely recognized title-awarders, so if they didn't give us the titles in those years it could hardly be a "consensus". Hope you can swim, 'cuz you're sinking fast...

Man, you don't know much about anything, do you. The word "consensus" is exactly the wording the NCAA uses. In the NCAA Record Book I reference earlier, page 88, you'll see a section called "consensus national champions" and they list Ohio State in both years. If that's not the NCAA calling them "consensus champions", I don't know what is. It also has historical roots which I'll not bother you with, as I can see I'd be wasting my time.

 

[ktffan]

Apparently not from the NCAA's "all encompassing" record book...

They both use the same sources.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Man, you don't know much about anything, do you. The word "consensus" is exactly the wording the NCAA uses.

I know what the word "consensus" means, putzhead. Evidently you, and the NCAA, do not, so let me enlighten your ass:

1. An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.
2. General agreement or accord: government by consensus.

If neither of the two main title-awarding entities of the time (AP and UPI) awarded titles to us, then just how in the fuck can it be a "consensus"?! Oh, the NCAA says so...

 

[3yardsandacloud]

You have no clue how the NCAA keeps their records, do you?

Member schools send their information to the NCAA? I'm guesing you see the possible conflict of interest involved here ... maybe not. Oh, and secondly, NEVER EVER use any portion of the US government (US Senate) to support an argument covering "right vs wrong".

Anyway, why are we crossing this ground again?

 

[ktffan]

I know what the word "consensus" means, putzhead. Evidently you, and the NCAA, do not, so let me enlighten your ass:

1. An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.
2. General agreement or accord: government by consensus.

If neither of the two main title-awarding entities of the time (AP and UPI) awarded titles to us, then just how in the fuck can it be a "consensus"?! Oh, the NCAA says so...

I know what the word consensus means. Let's review what was said.

1. I said the NCAA called Ohio State a consensus champion. That is a fact.

2. You said I didn't know what I was talking about because, you assured me, that the NCAA would do no such thing.

3. I showed exactly where the NCAA called Ohio State a consensus champion.

4. You get rude because you were shown to be wrong.

What I said and what you claimed was wrong what that the NCAA calls Ohio State a consensus champion and that is a fact.

 

[3yardsandacloud]

They both use the same sources.

I do not think this is correct. You might want to check your facts.

 

[jwinslow]

well that's peachy, I have no interest in your squabble with mili.

The point is the NCAA calls OSU a consensus champion and we are nothing of the sort.

 

[ktffan]

Member schools send their information to the NCAA? I'm guesing you see the possible conflict of interest involved here ... maybe not. Oh, and secondly, NEVERE EVER use any portion of the US government (US Senate) to support an argument covering "right vs wrong"

Anyway, why are we crossing this ground again?

I don't argue if it's a good system or not, all I'm telling you is that's what is offcial. All these ad hoc sites are using the same sources, only when you enter all that information by hand, you tend to make mistakes and it comes out less accurately. Good or not, I don't care, right or not, I don't care. That's what's official and that's what the NCAA and new organizations use. I don't see the point in pretending something else is "actually" the truth.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Yes, we are in agreement here. Your wording was you were "confirming" the NCAA. I'm not sure I'd use a non-official source to do that.

I was confirming your point, sparky, not the NCAA... your point, if you recall, was that OSU is 6th all time.

Where do you think stassen get's his information? Come on, he's taking it from the same place, and just makes mistakes. I've sent him several corrections myself, and he's got even more errors, but that's no big deal, just why take what he does as gospel? Besides, at issue in these cases are not "mistakes", but this is strictly his opinion.

So, you conclude that Stassen is making mistakes, but not the NCAA data people? Are you serious here? We've already determined that the NCAA has not been historically interested in official stats (Google to determine when they started keeping "official" stats has not revealed an answer for me yet) If the President recognizes 1 + 1 as being equal to 12 do we just assume it's Official and thus authoritive and correct?

I don't take the Stassen site as Gospel, I take it as valid and reliable, and I find it easy to use. You, my friend, seem to take the NCAA site as Gospel, with no real reason of why... your argument - "The President says so"

You say it's "Stassen's Opinion" What the fuck? Do we agree that the NCAA did not exist in 1903? We should, since I already posted when they came to be (1910, or 1906 as another entity) What is the NCAA's opinion of the score of the 1903 match between Michigan and Minnesota?

Where are the NCAA official records of this game? Do tell.

I thought the question was about Michigan. Yes, the same NCAA sources that lists Michigan also lists Yale. Havard also gets entries in the current book.

Do you see how the NCAA isn't recognizing anything? What they're doing is listing a list of who's been recognized BY OTHER SOURCES. There is no such thing as a DIA football National Champion. There wasn't such a thing in 1906, 1910, or even 2005. Take that "official" information and smoke it.

And the NCAA followed suit and called Michigan champion because of the selectors that picked them.

Umm... no... Find me a list of NCAA champions. Any list that says "The NCAA determined that Michigan was the 1901 Champion"

You only get 1 champion, if 1 body is calling it.. who was the official champion in 1901... Hell, who was the official champion in 2003? There IS NO official champion.