tOSU graduation rates

[fourteenandoh]

Another reason to hold schools responsible is to deter schools from allowing athletic responsibilities to make it impossible for athlete-students to get an education. If the NCAA doesn't want to admit to being a minor league, it has to take responsibility for graduation rates.

how do the NCAA rules limiting hours per week spent practicing/playing in and out of season factor into this. in my mind those rules are far more effective at deterring schools from allowing athletic responsibilites to limit time spent on academic responsibilities. if i recall, its 40 hours in season and 20 hours out of season.

 

[OH10]

My concern is with how the stats are presented - as if Ohio State has the biggest problem. Tennessee has lower grad rates, but we're the headline on both espn.com and cnnsi.com.

Ohio State HAD a problem and it's worth noting. But to ignore the fact that the stats concern players that were freshman over a decade ago is just a silly as dismissing the stats altogether.

Further, I think we ought to use these statistics as motivation to improve - which may be hard to do if you want to continue putting a winning team on the floor with players almost assuredly leaving early for the NBA.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Good points that don't get made enough. However, there is an important difference. One argument against paying players is that they already receive compensation in the form of an education. That argument holds a lot less weight if you simultaneously claim that it isn't the schools problem whether players graduate

Another reason to hold schools responsible is to deter schools from allowing athletic responsibilities to make it impossible for athlete-students to get an education. If the NCAA doesn't want to admit to being a minor league, it has to take responsibility for graduation rates.

just a question i agree with you for sure.

do you think theosu and a school like say usc should be held to the same grad rate standards as their student body rates are nowhere near the same? do you think it is even more interesting when some schools grad their players at alarmingly higher rates? do you think that some "smart" schools grad rates are reflective of the course loads other students take?

ok its more than one question, though its one point im making i guess

 

[zincfinger]

One argument against paying players is that they already receive compensation in the form of an education. That argument holds a lot less weight if you simultaneously claim that it isn't the schools problem whether players graduate

Although it's probably often stated in the short-hand manner that you describe, the real argument is that players receive the opportunity to get a free college education. You can't force an education upon somebody.

 

[HailToMichigan]

My concern is with how the stats are presented - as if Ohio State has the biggest problem. Tennessee has lower grad rates, but we're the headline on both espn.com and cnnsi.com.

Comes with the territory of being one of the marquee teams this year. I notice you're not shedding any tears for Florida. That paragraph was in terms of the #1 seeds, so if Tennessee was #1 and you guys were #5, Tennessee would get the knock.

Frankly I'm surprised at how few of you think this is a problem. There's more shooting the messenger (at least the first page of responses) and less worrying about what it does to OSU's reputation. For example, don't think for a minute that that kind of thing doesn't get used as a recruiting tool against you guys. "Don't let your son go play for Ohio State, they don't care about education....look, here are the numbers to prove it."

 

[fourteenandoh]

the reason i don't worry about it is the time period of the data.

 

[jwinslow]

Frankly I'm surprised at how few of you think this is a problem. There's more shooting the messenger (at least the first page of responses) and less worrying about what it does to OSU's reputation. For example, don't think for a minute that that kind of thing doesn't get used as a recruiting tool against you guys. "Don't let your son go play for Ohio State, they don't care about education....look, here are the numbers to prove it."

Well I'm sure PSU will drive this point into the ground, given their love for the black graduation statistic.

If a kid gives OSU coaches the time of day, it is simple to point out that Matta's seniors have graduated well thus far.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Comes with the territory of being one of the marquee teams this year. I notice you're not shedding any tears for Florida. That paragraph was in terms of the #1 seeds, so if Tennessee was #1 and you guys were #5, Tennessee would get the knock.

Frankly I'm surprised at how few of you think this is a problem. There's more shooting the messenger (at least the first page of responses) and less worrying about what it does to OSU's reputation. For example, don't think for a minute that that kind of thing doesn't get used as a recruiting tool against you guys. "Don't let your son go play for Ohio State, they don't care about education....look, here are the numbers to prove it."

please explain why bo stepped out as ad....

 

[Steve19]

I believe they say you learn from your past and I believe the Bucks have...also you can make figures say whatever you want...ESPiN knows sensation sells!

I am no defender of ESPN, far from it, but in this case I think it is fair to point out that their headline is Report notes disparity between grad rates of top seeds, which means that they dropped the AP headline 10 percent of Buckeye players got degrees.

Let's give the buggers credit for that, at least.

 

[Steve19]

I wonder who gets the credit for regular students graduating.

That would be me. My performance lowered the bar for lots of students in following years. It took lots of drinking and womanizing at the time, but I did it with an eye to my contribution to the well-being of future generations of Buckeye students.

What can I say? It was a very public-spirited age and I thought it was the least I could do.

 

[Steve19]

Comes with the territory of being one of the marquee teams this year. I notice you're not shedding any tears for Florida. That paragraph was in terms of the #1 seeds, so if Tennessee was #1 and you guys were #5, Tennessee would get the knock.

Frankly I'm surprised at how few of you think this is a problem. There's more shooting the messenger (at least the first page of responses) and less worrying about what it does to OSU's reputation. For example, don't think for a minute that that kind of thing doesn't get used as a recruiting tool against you guys. "Don't let your son go play for Ohio State, they don't care about education....look, here are the numbers to prove it."

Oh, put a sock in it. We're talking a bloody decade ago, a period when Ohio State was going through a very rough patch in this regard and in which we now know that O'Brien may have felt pressured to make more than a couple of bad decisions.

TSUN has graduated more athletes? That is where you are headed, isn't it?

I guess when it comes to the brains and brawn debate, you guys win. What do guys like Krenzel and Gonzales and the like really know. OK. You got us. No need to put any numbers on the table. We'll give up before the battle begins. You win.

Now let's see if, using all those brains, "the Victors" can leverage some value out of that impressive #3 NIT seed. After all, it is a national tournament and they were invited, weren't they?

 

[methomps]

Although it's probably often stated in the short-hand manner that you describe, the real argument is that players receive the opportunity to get a free college education. You can't force an education upon somebody.

True, but the reason it is stated as I stated it isn't for the purpose of brevity. It's a much stronger message. "...And most of us are going pro in something other than sports."

how do the NCAA rules limiting hours per week spent practicing/playing in and out of season factor into this. in my mind those rules are far more effective at deterring schools from allowing athletic responsibilites to limit time spent on academic responsibilities. if i recall, its 40 hours in season and 20 hours out of season.

It all goes together.

just a question i agree with you for sure.

do you think theosu and a school like say usc should be held to the same grad rate standards as their student body rates are nowhere near the same? do you think it is even more interesting when some schools grad their players at alarmingly higher rates? do you think that some "smart" schools grad rates are reflective of the course loads other students take?

ok its more than one question, though its one point im making i guess

I agree that the rates should be keyed to the individual school's grad rate. But, that seems unlikely to happen.

 

[melrun78]

Comes with the territory of being one of the marquee teams this year. I notice you're not shedding any tears for Florida. That paragraph was in terms of the #1 seeds, so if Tennessee was #1 and you guys were #5, Tennessee would get the knock.

Frankly I'm surprised at how few of you think this is a problem. There's more shooting the messenger (at least the first page of responses) and less worrying about what it does to OSU's reputation. For example, don't think for a minute that that kind of thing doesn't get used as a recruiting tool against you guys. "Don't let your son go play for Ohio State, they don't care about education....look, here are the numbers to prove it."

Both of those were good points. I agree I was shooting the messenger but I also question his professional credibility when these stats are just released now. Does it really take 10 years to compile this info?

Secondly, I never even thought about the possible recruiting ramifications but one would hope a recruit (and parents) give the current coaches and administrators a fair look.

 

[HailToMichigan]

Oh, put a sock in it. We're talking a bloody decade ago, a period when Ohio State was going through a very rough patch in this regard and in which we now know that O'Brien may have felt pressured to make more than a couple of bad decisions.

TSUN has graduated more athletes? That is where you are headed, isn't it?

I guess when it comes to the brains and brawn debate, you guys win. What do guys like Krenzel and Gonzales and the like really know. OK. You got us. No need to put any numbers on the table. We'll give up before the battle begins. You win.

Now let's see if, using all those brains, "the Victors" can leverage some value out of that impressive #3 NIT seed. After all, it is a national tournament and they were invited, weren't they?

Find "Michigan" in my post and I'll buy you a beer. Have you got some kind of inferiority complex that everything OSU does has got to be compared to Michigan to see if it's better? I certainly didn't frame it like that. It's nice to know that OSU's problems can be tossed aside as "a rough patch" but let's all laugh at Michigan's. Dare I suggest you are inadvertently holding Michigan to a higher standard?

A decade ago, eh? No, that was the freshman classes of '96-'99, and given that a degree in six years is a benchmark of that study, that means the study goes all the way up to 2005. You can't blame the guy for taking 10 years to compile the data when he correctly takes data from several years' worth of classes and gives them six years to graduate. To claim that those were the problems of 10 years ago is to say that those freshman classes were screwed from the very beginning and were never gonna graduate anyway.

 

[zincfinger]

True, but the reason it is stated as I stated it isn't for the purpose of brevity. It's a much stronger message. "...And most of us are going pro in something other than sports."

Maybe, although it's not clear to me that "players receive a free education" is a much stronger message than "players receive the opportunity to get a free education", and I would think that everyone would realize that the former actually means the latter. As to the soundbite in the NCAA promotional ad, that pointedly refers to all NCAA sports, and doesn't seem relevant to the question of how responsible a school is for the academic performance of its athletes, or how a school achieves good academic performance for its athletes. Regardless of your views on any of those questions, it is true that most NCAA athletes will go pro in something other than sports.