To CCG or not to CCG (split from college playoff thread)

[BB73]

In all honesty, in 2002 (our last NC coincidently) they did go 8-0 in conference to tie us for the Big Ten title...only an early season choke job against Iowa State kept them from 12-0...

Where's the Trev font when you need it?

 

[Lockup]

Texas will not play us, we have tried many times, we had a home and home with USC a few years back, talks are going on with Oklahoma now, we had Miami a few years ago and we completed a home and home with Va. tech this year. As far as the conference being tough, OSU is the winner of your conference, playing everyone in your conference, yet there are at least 8 SEC teams with a stronger SOS ranking than yours while playing only a portion of the SEC teams. Do you really think we need an excuse?

1. OSU doesn't play everybody in the Big 10.

2. nobody doubts the strenght of the SEC. Like most conference games though they tend to be the toughest. I just don't personally think saying yuor conference is tough is an excuse to wuss out of a quailty OOC. If you are that good you should win.

 

[methomps]

Let me clarify a little more.

The Pats DIVISION is the AFC east. Pats play everyone in the AFC East (but not everyone in AFC). Winner of division gets into the playoffs (6 game playoff), to determine CONFERENCE champion. CONFERENCE champ gets automatic bowl berth (Super Bowl in this instance).

LSU's DIVISION is the SEC West. LSU plays everyone in SEC West (but not everyone in SEC). Winner of division goes to the playoff (1 game playoff), to determine CONFERENCE champion. CONFERENCE champion gets automatic Bowl berth (Sugar Bowl, sometime NCG).


Only difference is that the winner of the AFC is guaranteed a shot at the Title. The SEC champ is eligible, but it's not guaranteed.

There are 8 divisions in the NFL. There are 6 major conferences in D1-A football. There are 8 automatic playoff berths for winning your division in the NFL. There are 6 BCS berths for winning a major conference in D1-A. The SEC CCG is not comparable to the AFC or NFC playoffs. It does not confer an automatic berth into the NCG (although SEC fans feel that entitelment).

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

There are 8 divisions in the NFL. There are 6 major conferences in D1-A football. There are 8 automatic playoff berths for winning your division in the NFL. There are 6 BCS berths for winning a major conference in D1-A. The SEC CCG is not comparable to the AFC or NFC playoffs. It does not confer an automatic berth into the NCG (although SEC fans feel that entitelment).

In fact, the CCG can (and in the case of the Big XII and ACC, has) give an undeserving team a shot. It's also why I think the winner of a Bball tourney getting to auto bid is stupid. Suppose a shit team like Northwestern lucks in to a Big Ten Tourney win.... autobid... for winning ... what, 3 games?

The Big XII - historically - provides a classic example of the "wrong team" winning.. and often.

 

[Tigertracker]

1. OSU doesn't play everybody in the Big 10.

2. nobody doubts the strenght of the SEC. Like most conference games though they tend to be the toughest. I just don't personally think saying yuor conference is tough is an excuse to wuss out of a quailty OOC. If you are that good you should win.

Of course it could be said that scheduling a good OOC opponent doesn't make up for playing a conference schedule loaded with non competitive teams also. The more competitive teams played in a season, the bigger toll it takes both Phys. and mentally and can cause teams to lose games that they normally would not have.

 

[sandgk]

This Big 10 fan doesn't think the SEC should change how you choose the conference champion. I think the CCG will more often knock a team out of the BCS title game than help them get in.

If the Big 12 didn't have a CCG, the BCS title game would have been Mizzou and tOSU and the SEC fans would be bitching again.

And if West Virginia hadn't choked against Pitt, the only reason tOSU would have made the title game would have been the Big 12 CCG. I'm all for the ACC, Big 12, and SEC CCG games - it's another chance to knock somebody out of the top 2 BCS spots and open it up for tOSU.

And I only care about one thing - whatever's best for tSOU - if others think some conferences with title games and some without them isn't right, I don't give a shit.

This post has been put through the Bullshit Detector and came out with a 100% No Bullshit Rating.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

[/size]

IMO, this is not a good rule. Previous seasons should have no bearing on the outcome of the current one. How happy would OSU fans be it came down to this, and y'all were left out, because y'all have the most recent Big Ten title? It's like your penalizing a team for being consistently good, and rewarding a team for having an upstart once in a decade season.

Several times in my life, Ohio State has been kept out of the Rose Bowl by that rule. There really hasn't been a lot of bitching about it.

Alot of us remember times when that rule kept us out of the Rose Bowl when the Big Ten's policy was Rose Bowl or nothing. In other words, there was a time when the Big Ten's champion went to the Rose Bowl, and all other teams were prohibited from accepting other Bowl bids. Losing out on the Rose Bowl due to that rule (which obviously was worded differently back then) really sucked back then.

Back then we even had a no-repeat rule that kept OSU out of the Rose Bowl when we were outright champions. But that's a different story for a different day.

 

[OCBucksFan]

So, hypothetically speaking here, if the Big10 got a 12th team and broke into the Big10 east/west or north/south or whatever, how would the game happen? Would they keep tOSU and tsun in the same division? If so, wouldn't that make the other division much easier to have a great record in? I realize this may never happen, but it's put a lot of thoughts regarding this into my head.

Those two play every year, so if you put them into different divisions wouldn't it be likely to happen that they would match up for the last week before the CG then could meet again a week or two later?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Nutriaitch]

So, hypothetically speaking here, if the Big10 got a 12th team and broke into the Big10 east/west or north/south or whatever, how would the game happen? Would they keep tOSU and tsun in the same division? If so, wouldn't that make the other division much easier to have a great record in? I realize this may never happen, but it's put a lot of thoughts regarding this into my head.

Those two play every year, so if you put them into different divisions wouldn't it be likely to happen that they would match up for the last week before the CG then could meet again a week or two later?

Just some thoughts.

I actually wondered about this myself. For the sake of tradition, OSU and UM must meet up every year, last week of the season. So Hypothetically speaking:

If Big Ten adopted a Conf. sched. similar to SEC (play 5 division opponents every year, 1 permanat opponent from other division, and 2 rotating opponent from other division).
If OSU Michigan were in opposite divisions, you're looking at a good possibility of there being a rematch the following week (unless OSU?UM game gets moved) in most years.
If OSU and UM are in different divisions, who would go into the other division that would both make it worth a chit, and make sense geographically?

 

[Mike80]

In fact, the CCG can (and in the case of the Big XII and ACC, has) give an undeserving team a shot. It's also why I think the winner of a Bball tourney getting to auto bid is stupid. Suppose a shit team like Northwestern lucks in to a Big Ten Tourney win.... autobid... for winning ... what, 3 games?

The Big XII - historically - provides a classic example of the "wrong team" winning.. and often.

I have an even better (for our LSU friends) example of this...

2001 - #21 ranked LSU beat #2 ranked Tennessee, costing Tennessee the shot at the National Title.

The CCG game concept (as flawed as the BCS because it was invented by the same idiot) will allow a conference to shoot itself in their collective foot more often than not.

 

[Nutriaitch]

The CCG game concept (as flawed as the BCS because it was invented by the same idiot) will allow a conference to shoot itself in their collective foot more often than not.

SEC teams to play for NC since CG was introduced:
Bama - '92
Florida - '95
Florida - '96 (no chance at title without CG)
Tenn - '98
LSU - '03 (not in game without CG)
Florida - '06 (not in game without CG)
LSU - '07 (not in game without CG)

SEC teams eliminated from NCG by CCG:
Bama - '94 (only loss of season)
Tenn - '01

Every other year, it neither helped nor hurt.

So, the CG has only "hurt" the SEC twice in 16 years, but has "helped" a team get in 4 times.

So far, (at least in the SEC) the CG has helped more often than it has hurt.

 

[Mike80]

SEC teams to play for NC since CG was introduced:
Bama - '92
Florida - '95
Florida - '96 (no chance at title without CG)
Tenn - '98
LSU - '03 (not in game without CG)
Florida - '06 (not in game without CG)
LSU - '07 (not in game without CG)

SEC teams eliminated from NCG by CCG:
Bama - '94 (only loss of season)
Tenn - '01

Every other year, it neither helped nor hurt.

So, the CG has only "hurt" the SEC twice in 16 years, but has "helped" a team get in 4 times.

So far, (at least in the SEC) the CG has helped more often than it has hurt.

Let's look at it this way:

Bama - '92 - in the title game either way and beat Miami in another MNC game that was set up more by bowl tie-ins than anything.

Florida - '95 - Needed an undefeated Ohio State team to lose to Michigan to make the game against Nebraska an ipso facto NC game in the Orange bowl.

Florida - '96 - Needed an Ohio State loss more than the CG (without the loss to Michigan, it might have been Ohio STate vs. Arizona State for the title, as it was this Florida team needed Arizona State to lose to Ohio State)

Tenn - '98 - Needed an Ohio State loss more than the CG (without the loss to Michigan State it would have been Ohio State vs. FSU)

LSU - '03 - winning the CG was necessary, but they wouldn't have gotten there without other teams losing (If Ohio State wins their game against Michigan, it's likely Ohio State - Oklahoma)

Florida - '06 - winning the CG was necessary, but they wouldn't have gotten there without other teams losing

LSU - '07 - winning the CG was necessary, but they wouldn't have gotten there without (6) other teams losing


It's an unnecessary risk to take which your conference has decided is acceptable. Also I can conclude that the Cooper era was so full of near-misses it's depressing (actually I already knew that but hadn't ever posted it before).....

 

[BB73]

Tenn - '98 - Needed an Ohio State loss more than the CG (without the loss to Michigan State it would have been Ohio State vs. FSU)

It would have been tOSU-Tennessee in the first BCS title game if tOSU hadn't lost to MSU. I do agree that Tennessee didn't need the title game to get in.

What they did need was Clint Stoerner fumbling without being touched, and a marginal penalty to keep their last-minute drive going in the Carrier Dome in their opener.

I'm also not sure of the contention that '96 Florida needed the CCG in order to win the NC. They were #4, and might have been given the Sugar Bowl rematch with FSU without the CCG - then they would have been in a beauty contest with tOSU after the bowls. The big factor was that Nebraska lost their CCG, and thus wasn't matched up with #1 FSU.

 

[Mike80]

It would have been tOSU-Tennessee in the first BCS title game if tOSU hadn't lost to MSU. I do agree that Tennessee didn't need the title game to get in.

What they did need was Clint Stoerner fumbling without being touched, and a marginal penalty to keep their last-minute drive going in the Carrier Dome in their opener.

I'm also not sure of the contention that '96 Florida needed the CCG in order to win the NC. They were #4, and might have been given the Sugar Bowl rematch with FSU without the CCG - then they would have been in a beauty contest with tOSU after the bowls. The big factor was that Nebraska lost their CCG, and thus wasn't matched up with #1 FSU.

I think I'm getting the years all mixed up here :p

Without the loss to Michigan in 1996, Ohio State and Arizona State are both undefeated in the Rose Bowl. Even if Florida (with one loss) beats FSU, chances are the winner of that Rose Bowl wins the NC....

 

[BB73]

Without the loss to Michigan in 1996, Ohio State and Arizona State are both undefeated in the Rose Bowl. Even if Florida (with one loss) beats FSU, chances are the winner of that Rose Bowl wins the NC....

I agree with that - my scenario about '96 Florida was just whether or not their CCG was needed to get into the rematch with Florida State, with all other things being the same.