The Ohio State University Marching Band (TBDBITL)

[cincibuck]

Oh! I almost forgot! I'm also familiar with the play "Inherit The Wind". You obviously aren't, or you would have understood the well-intended humor.
Have a nice day.

Yeah, well you just cast your fate to the winds, and the winds of wars, and the winds in the willows, and let us not forget the big wind from Winettka, or the wind beneath your wings. As a speech and theatre major I may just know more Inherit the Wind than you think. That should wind things up in the bad joke department.

 

[pianobuck46]

Yeah, well you just cast your fate to the winds, and the winds of wars, and the winds in the willows, and let us not forget the big wind from Winettka, or the wind beneath your wings. As a speech and theatre major I may just know more Inherit the Wind than you think. That should wind things up in the bad joke department.

Yeah, well you just cast your fate to the winds, and the winds of wars, and the winds in the willows, and let us not forget the big wind from Winettka, or the wind beneath your wings. As a speech and theatre major I may just know more Inherit the Wind than you think. That should wind things up in the bad joke department.

You must mean "Big Noise From Winnetka" by Ray Bauduc and Bob Haggart and "Wind In The Willows". Hey, four out of six ain't bad!

 

[pianobuck46]

Yeah, well you just cast your fate to the winds, and the winds of wars, and the winds in the willows, and let us not forget the big wind from Winettka, or the wind beneath your wings. As a speech and theatre major I may just know more Inherit the Wind than you think. That should wind things up in the bad joke department.

I meant three of six.........."Wind Beneath My Wings". Sorry, my bad.

 

[BayBuck]

Anywho...

University responds to Waters's response:
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto..._fires_back_against_former_band_director.html

“The former director has yet to produce any factual examples that demonstrate any tangible attempts to change the band culture,” Ohio State spokesman Gary Lewis wrote.
...
“The former band director did not notify university officials,” Lewis wrote. “In fact, he failed to inform or consult with others regarding the misconduct, as required by university policy, despite having numerous opportunities to do so over the past 18 months.”
...
But Lewis wrote that, during the investigation, Waters was “not forthcoming or truthful with university personnel on multiple occasions.” The statement provided one example: Waters first denied accusations that he had ever yelled at students or used profanity at them, but in an audio recording provided by a student, a man identified as Waters shouts and curses at a student.

I still think the new president rushed the firing, but Waters left enough rope lying around to hang him with, and there's pretty much zero chance he gets his job back.
But I do have some questions about the interim director Mikkelson's role in the band's administration, considering he's been around forever and appears to be not blind/deaf/dumb.

 

[cincibuck]

I meant three of six.........."Wind Beneath My Wings". Sorry, my bad.

Poetic license. The winds are a collective plural, I was using the plural instead of the singular because the winds in a band or orchestra are plural and so to be consistent, and to make the connection to the woodwind(s) in a band I used the plural. The same would go for changing 'my' to 'your,' and inasmuch as our back and forth comments are an obvious example of punning by both parties, I exercised the writers prerogative to use 'your.'

Oh, and about Winnetka... there's a cover by Bob Crosby – Big Wind Blew In From Winnetka. http://blip.fm/listen/Bob+Crosby::Big+Wind+Blew+In+From+Winnetka

The wind(s) and I say that the summer wind(s) puts this back in your court in Oklahoma where the wind(s) come(s) right before the rain.

Now back to the news, I can't believe that posts such as director of TBDBITL are easily come by. I would think that the university's actions, firing for cause, put him in a career ending situation in terms of any kind of education post, much less music education. I wonder if Drake considered that.

Has anyone seen anything that suggests that Waters received a performance review during his 18 months?

 

[Dryden]

Has anyone seen anything that suggests that Waters received a performance review during his 18 months?

1.7m spectators and 40m+ YouTube viewers think his performance was great!

 

[pianobuck46]

Poetic license. The winds are a collective plural, I was using the plural instead of the singular because the winds in a band or orchestra are plural and so to be consistent, and to make the connection to the woodwind(s) in a band I used the plural. The same would go for changing 'my' to 'your,' and inasmuch as our back and forth comments are an obvious example of punning by both parties, I exercised the writers prerogative to use 'your.'

Oh, and about Winnetka... there's a cover by Bob Crosby – Big Wind Blew In From Winnetka. http://blip.fm/listen/Bob Crosby::Big Wind Blew In From Winnetka

The wind(s) and I say that the summer wind(s) puts this back in your court in Oklahoma where the wind(s) come(s) right before the rain.

Now back to the news, I can't believe that posts such as director of TBDBITL are easily come by. I would think that the university's actions, firing for cause, put him in a career ending situation in terms of any kind of education post, much less music education. I wonder if Drake considered that.

Has anyone seen anything that suggests that Waters received a performance review during his 18 months?

Listened to the Crosby clip. Sorry, but the lyric is "Big Noise, etc. etc." Whoever it was that posted the clip did so with the wrong title. I worked and recorded with Bob Haggart many times, have the original record, and believe me, the title is indeed "Big Noise From Winnetka". But don't take my word for it.....Google it!

But enough nitpicking. You are correct about the post thing. Drake's knee jerk reaction was one-sided and completely out of line, due to the whining of one parent. I certainly hope that Waters is reinstated. Trust me...........this won't die soon. Go Bucks!

 

[VprHis]

Has anyone seen anything that suggests that Waters received a performance review during his 18 months?

Now that's an interesting question...

 

[kujirakira]

Again, you're talking law. I'm talking university policy and HR practices.

Have a read: http://hr.osu.edu/public/documents/policy/policy115.pdf?t=2014841818

Based on the definitions in OSU policy, the sexualized environment could be considered harassment. Waters had the duty to act. The University found his actions wanting. That's all I'm saying. They had justification.

I'm playing devil's advocate here--remember, I think he should have been suspended pending the thorough investigation. These federally-mandated 60-day (30, in my line of work) investigations tend to be broad, but not particularly deep--clearly evidenced by this one--so I'd hate to terminate someone based on one.

It's being sold as a Title IX legal issue... so yea... it makes sense to talk law.
Talking HR just seems like smoke and mirrors b/c the legal issues given don't hold water. A means of muddying the waters a bit.

I also found this statement to be laughable since their own report showed several examples where he took specific actions to reign things in:
"The former director has yet to produce any factual examples that demonstrate any tangible attempts to change the band culture"

That said, I agree with others that he's not getting the job back. Autocrats rarely reconsider their autocratic decisions -- even if they are bad and indefensible (see Ray Rice for another recent example)

 

[VprHis]

It's being sold as a Title IX legal issue... so yea... it makes sense to talk law.
Talking HR just seems like smoke and mirrors b/c the legal issues given don't hold water. A means of muddying the waters a bit.

I also found this statement to be laughable since their own report showed several examples where he took specific actions to reign things in:
"The former director has yet to produce any factual examples that demonstrate any tangible attempts to change the band culture"

It was a decision made subsequent to an investigation carried out by the title IX office--that doesn't mean they restrict the employment decision to those grounds, or hold the investigation to a standard typical of a court of law. The investigation turned up what appear to be numerous failures to adhere to university policy. Any organization is well within its rights to terminate an employee who doesn't follow policy.

I don't know of a more straightforward way to point out that someone doesn't have to break the law to be fired. Perhaps you could direct me to the quote where a representative of the university says he is being fired for breaking the law?

From the article linked above:
"...Any one of those traditions would have been enough to fire Waters under university policy, university officials said. Ohio State rules require all employees to report information that “would lead a reasonable person to believe that sexual harassment has occurred” within five work days."
http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto..._fires_back_against_former_band_director.html

Again. Policy.

Everything else is just wind(s).

 

[kujirakira]

My point is simple: It's being talked about as a Title IX issue. Not an HR issue.
You're changing the goalposts because the Title IX issue is rather bogus.

 

[cincibuck]

1.7m spectators and 40m+ YouTube viewers think his performance was great!

So maybe this becomes a larger issue than the PC/Title IX folks want - JFTR, in many ways I support title IX - but this appears to me to be a case of overreach by the school, by the complaining parent, by the Title IX office.

Furthermore, I can't think of a single revenue making sport team that could match the standard the Title IX office expects from the band.

 

[cincibuck]

"But Lewis wrote that, during the investigation, Waters was “not forthcoming or truthful with university personnel on multiple occasions.” The statement provided one example: Waters first denied accusations that he had ever yelled at students or used profanity at them, but in an audio recording provided by a student, a man identified as Waters shouts and curses at a student."

"...gasp. He used sarcasm..."

Oh my God. One of the first things I talk about in my English class is the use of language to paint your truth. You don't hit your thumb with a hammer and say, "Fudge." or "Shoot." And yes, each year I get a student or two who uses the teacher evaluation to complain - "And then to make his point he said 'fuck' three more times."

What un-parallel universe do these bureaucrats and parents live in?

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

"But Lewis wrote that, during the investigation, Waters was “not forthcoming or truthful with university personnel on multiple occasions.” The statement provided one example: Waters first denied accusations that he had ever yelled at students or used profanity at them, but in an audio recording provided by a student, a man identified as Waters shouts and curses at a student."

"...gasp. He used sarcasm..."

Oh my God. One of the first things I talk about in my English class is the use of language to paint your truth. You don't hit your thumb with a hammer and say, "Fudge." or "Shoot." And yes, each year I get a student or two who uses the teacher evaluation to complain - "And then to make his point he said 'fuck' three more times."

What un-parallel universe do these bureaucrats and parents live in?

Fuck you

 

[cincibuck]

Fuck you

And with your spirit also.