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The birth of a Universe?

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Brewtus;1690955; said:
If you're going to use God as the answer to the First Cause argument, then you also need to explain how God came to be otherwise you haven't explained anything. If you need a Creator, then you need a Creator for that Creator ad infinitum.
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Let me speak from the perspective of a person of faith on this issue..

Most people of faith don't hold God to the same set of "rules" as to the ones that exist in our universe

People know what they observe and hear, we have come to understand some of the characteristics of the universe around us (the laws of science etc).

However when it comes to God, God is recognized as the CREATOR of the universe not a part of it. There isn't a reason to believe that God is somehow subject to these same rules as that of his creation. If God is to be recognized as "All knowing" and "All powerful" that suggests that "his" "thought process" (if you can even call it that) is completely on a different level then all of humanity put together. Humans get caught up on things like free will vs destiny but to God who says there is a difference?

So trying to take this down to a very simple level, God decides to create a universe with very specific rules, he creates matter and we have the Big Bang..this universe develops over millions of years with the planet that we inhabit developing life and eventually human beings.

The problem I think with Religion and Science meshing is that Religion is heavily tied to the past and previous methods of thinking. So when people read the bible back when and they saw that God "created" the universe they just pictured a man up in the sky waving his hand and Adam and Eve popping up in a Garden. While I personally have no doubt God could have done this, science has given us a more sophisticated model for the way the universe developed.

Now you may ask why Jesus didn't spend his time teaching Molecular Genetics or Astronomy? I would answer that neither of those subjects were really ever the point. Personally "how" the universe came to be is much less interesting then the "why". Don't really think there's a difference whether God made "Adam and Eve" pop out of thin air or initiated a long sequence of effects that "began" with a big bang as long as the end game is the same.

The interesting question imo is..was/is there a "purpose" in the way the universe has been created along with all the things in it? What significance to human beings play in? Really the questions can get AWFULLY deep here and thus awfully interesting
 
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Universe

Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1690992; said:
Well, if there is a G-d, it also give some solution to the question - if the universe is expanding, what is it expanding in to? In other words, it is expanding in to something that is supernatural (or, outside of nature)
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Ok now,,,then if the Universe is ever expanding, then is the universe infinite?

If not, what happens to the universe when it reaches the limit of expansion?

If the universe is not without limits, what is on the other side of the universe as we understand it?

So many questions. See below for the ultimate truth.


Even though Astrophysics is a science, it is all wrong. The Universe was created as we know it when an alien scientist in an alternative universe made a humongous mistake in chemistry lab and the resulting explosion was a Big Bang. By the way GOD created the other universe.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1691191; said:
I don't want to quiet the discussion that has developed, but are there any takers on the original question posed? If we assume it's true that the universe self replicates, is the biblical version of god in trouble?
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Personally, I don't feel like it changes much. There are a variery of opinions among Christians about how G-d created the heavens (since the bible is not specific), so a white hole replicating things doesn't really change the ballgame.

The core question is still untouched, what created the first stuff?

Big bang, white holes, killer nanorobots... Irrelevant to the important question imo, because none of them change that void in a universe without a creator.
 
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jwinslow;1691241; said:
Personally, I don't feel like it changes much. There are a variery of opinions among Christians about how G-d created the heavens (since the bible is not specific), so a white hole replicating things doesn't really change the ballgame.

The core question is still untouched, what created the first stuff?

Big bang, white holes, killer nanorobots... Irrelevant to the important question imo, because none of them change that void in a universe without a creator.
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I guess I'm not being clear... and maybe it's just not an issue. Does the possibility of more than 1 universe change anything?

Or, more directly - if we assume there in fact ARE multiple universes, does the biblical god or G-d survive? Why or why not?
 
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multiple universes are equally as implausible as one universe that started from nothing with a big bang which is equally as implausible as the universe being created from nothing by some higher power which is equally as implausible as anything else someone can think of...

I like to hedge my bets by not choosing which one I think is "correct"
 
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There is but one Universe, There is but one God of that universe. That is me.
The universe is Mine. I own it. It revolves around me.
All the rest of you are interlopers and illegal aliens. Get out while you can.
:atom:
 
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Ttown;1691262; said:
There is but one Universe, There is but one God of that universe. That is me.
The universe is Mine. I own it. It revolves around me.
All the rest of you are interlopers and illegal aliens. Get out while you can.
:atom:
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I thought we were different versions of BKB's personalities. You must be his "god complex" personality.
 
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I guess I'm not being clear... and maybe it's just not an issue. Does the possibility of more than 1 universe change anything?
Or, more directly - if we assume there in fact ARE multiple universes, does the biblical god or G-d survive? Why or why not?
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Not really, why can't he be in charge of both? Or be multiple G-ds (yet also one) running each one?

G-d could easily have other planets in this galaxy where he has carried out similar biblical tales & plans for those races, I don't see a big fundamental difference in other planets vs other universes. It still comes back to needing something to set it all in motion.
 
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