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- Thread starter Buckeyeskickbuttocks
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AKAKBUCK;893266; said:
On your last point, I think you make a good observation regarding why we must exclude miracles from consideration on the Ark, since the Bible does not hesitate to ascribe such acts to God when it is the contention that he performed one. Likewise, if Miracles are all that he needs to get the job done, he could just as well kill all but two of each creature and Noah's family with a snap of his fingers.
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OCBuckWife
I am the evil monkey in your closet
That is an amazing amount of work and research you did there, BkB. Props, regardless of where the thread goes.
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Thanks.
Also, I realize this was directed at LV mostly, but anyone can of course argue against if they want. LV's not the only Ark advocate on the board.
Also, I realize this was directed at LV mostly, but anyone can of course argue against if they want. LV's not the only Ark advocate on the board.
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Bleed S & G
Taking Crazy Pills
obvious hoax? turkey offically announced the discovery about 20 years ago..Buckeye86;893221; said:
while this is outlandish and i would think if this is the ark, alot more would be aware of the finding.. in terms of the metal..
once again, it is pushing it but i wouldnt rule out the use of metals:
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;893299; said:
I wouldn't necassarily say i'm an ark advocate.. however, i think the most telling of all this is, if there was no world-wide flood, how come most if not every ancient tradition as a noah and a flood? the aztecs have the same account as the ancient hebrews.. maybe a coincidence but highly doubtful
and nobody walked on water either.. easy card for both of us to play.AKAKBUCK;893229; said:
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;893238; said:
Wyatt may have zero credibility, he probably does with all the other claims he makes.. heres an article on abc, from last year, same subject, same size, new people.. no wyatt: ABC News: Satellite May Have Found Noah's Ark
Well, to be honest i wouldn't bank on it being discovered later.. who knows what kind of technology was around.. and history shows things being rediscovered and intelligence is not consitent with time (as in, people 3000 years ago were smarter than those in the dark ages)
In conclusion, the most 'evidence' for me is that its in many traditions.. in terms of this being a hoax, very very possible.
Kind of coincidental that the exact length of the boat as described in the bible is found in some wooden structure buried until the last 30 years, that just happens to be resting on a mountain where the bible says it will be..
pardon my spelling, had to bust this out real quick and my spelling sucks anyways
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks;893291; said:
Makes you sort of wonder if the lesson is more important than the details, doesn't it?
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The water walking guy also did lots of other stuff that seems a bit unlikely... but... we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Once again, my understanding is, Noah built the Ark-- although... that he was 600 years old is a bit... umm... fishy.
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S&G - the problem is, the thing is not the exact size (Fortunately for the Creationists side the "Cubit" could be anywhere from 17 to 21 inches, though Woodmorappe used 45.xx cm), and if you look at a close up, it's clearly a rock formation - limestone.
I do not deny that it is an interesting rock formation, nor will I deny that Turkey is trying to make some money off of it. Roswell NM does a similar thing, and I don't see any Creationists talking about how the existence of a Museum establishes alien life.
I have a rationale for why every culture has a flood myth. It's posted somewhere on this board, but the nutshell of it is this...
Man settles near water. During the ice age, man existed. Man was ignorant of the ice age, particularly those people living near the equator.. The ice age ends. The water gets higher (not catastrophically, gradually) people don't know what the hell is happening. It's a pretty big deal, and people pass down the story orally over time. Eventually, someone wites it down. Like all stories it get's embelished over time, so we introduce Noah as a charecter and we have him do impressive things.
I don't know why story telling is such an obvious thing when we evaluate Native American Myths but so unlikely when we examine Judeo-Christian Myths.
My theory may not be correct in terms of specifics, but I would argue that the Noah story is indeed a tale with some basis in historical fact (for the exact reason you cite, every culture mentions it (Well, kind of... the Egypitains didn't seem to notice the Biblical flood... they just kept on building and building) Begging another question, of course... how many Noah's were there? An Aztec Noah, a Hebrew Noah... so on... and so on... maybe these independant Noah's divided the work of rounding up all the animals?
Eh... Regardless, not one item of my original post has been yet discredited. Even if we assume this rock outcrop is the Ark, it is established that it wouldn't work. Establish otherwise. (and before anyone says some craziness about how if it IS the ark, we have to assume it worked, consider the fact that Man abandons projects all the time, for various reasons.... Prove to me that if this is the Ark, it would have worked.... it's all I ask)
Edit: You don't have to "prove" it... just offer a demonstration, showing you work of course. If you think, for example, that the Ark was only 15% full of food, establish how and why this would be sufficient. Or, at least offer up a reason for arriving at the 15% number.
I do not deny that it is an interesting rock formation, nor will I deny that Turkey is trying to make some money off of it. Roswell NM does a similar thing, and I don't see any Creationists talking about how the existence of a Museum establishes alien life.
I have a rationale for why every culture has a flood myth. It's posted somewhere on this board, but the nutshell of it is this...
Man settles near water. During the ice age, man existed. Man was ignorant of the ice age, particularly those people living near the equator.. The ice age ends. The water gets higher (not catastrophically, gradually) people don't know what the hell is happening. It's a pretty big deal, and people pass down the story orally over time. Eventually, someone wites it down. Like all stories it get's embelished over time, so we introduce Noah as a charecter and we have him do impressive things.
I don't know why story telling is such an obvious thing when we evaluate Native American Myths but so unlikely when we examine Judeo-Christian Myths.
My theory may not be correct in terms of specifics, but I would argue that the Noah story is indeed a tale with some basis in historical fact (for the exact reason you cite, every culture mentions it (Well, kind of... the Egypitains didn't seem to notice the Biblical flood... they just kept on building and building) Begging another question, of course... how many Noah's were there? An Aztec Noah, a Hebrew Noah... so on... and so on... maybe these independant Noah's divided the work of rounding up all the animals?
Eh... Regardless, not one item of my original post has been yet discredited. Even if we assume this rock outcrop is the Ark, it is established that it wouldn't work. Establish otherwise. (and before anyone says some craziness about how if it IS the ark, we have to assume it worked, consider the fact that Man abandons projects all the time, for various reasons.... Prove to me that if this is the Ark, it would have worked.... it's all I ask)
Edit: You don't have to "prove" it... just offer a demonstration, showing you work of course. If you think, for example, that the Ark was only 15% full of food, establish how and why this would be sufficient. Or, at least offer up a reason for arriving at the 15% number.
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Incidentally, most seem to believe the Ark was squared off, like a barge.
And:
Arks are popping up everywhere...
And:
Arks are popping up everywhere...
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Bleed S & G
Taking Crazy Pills
is he literally 600 years old? jeez, it's hard to debate if you take every word literally, as i've said its a parable i'm like LV in this regaurd.. would i rule out the possibility of him being 600.. no. But i think its more or less symbolic of his importance.AKAKBUCK;893408; said:The water walking guy also did lots of other stuff that seems a bit unlikely... but... we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
Once again, my understanding is, Noah built the Ark-- although... that he was 600 years old is a bit... umm... fishy.
that walking on water guy did do some pretty cool things.. off topic a little but something i've been throwing around in my head..
you have 20 patients, all 20 go under and have surgery.. 10 have there knee scoped, and 10 have only the incisions made and are told they did infact have there knee scoped but are 'tricked'
all 20 never have problems again.. why do placebos work?
why did Christ always reply "it is your faith that has cured you"? Why when he told Peter to walk on the water towards him, Peter (a mere human) walked on the water until he lost faith and began to sink? Christ said:
Matthew Chapter 21
19And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! 21Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
This really has nothing to do with anything other than bouncing in my head, Christ pretty much tells us that our mind is much more powerful than we think and we limit ourselves..
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