Tatgate Discussion

[sflbuck]

Realize it and do what?

In the first case, the news was going to come out eventually, "leak" or not. Also, the "leak" didn't make Ohio State look bad, the actions of players and a coach did.

In the second case, they have an obligation under NCAA rules to report such possible violations if they are believe to have occurred. The "leak" doesn't make them look bad - what makes people look bad is thinking that it was a big deal or that they were going out of their way to do something petty.

In the second case I realize that they could not have done anything different. But in the first case, imagine how different it would have been if OSU had a press conference announcing the start of the investigation as opposed to being leaked by someone at the NCAA. Nearly everyone I talked to in my travels in the SE thought the NCAA 'caught' OSU instead of us self reporting.

So I would say if you need to get in front of any bad news.

 

[Bill Lucas]

In the second case I realize that they could not have done anything different. But in the first case, imagine how different it would have been if OSU had a press conference announcing the start of the investigation as opposed to being leaked by someone at the NCAA. Nearly everyone I talked to in my travels in the SE thought the NCAA 'caught' OSU instead of us self reporting.

So I would say if you need to get in front of any bad news.

Tatgate wasn't the really bad news. It was the lying and coverup of Tatgate and the subsequent playing of ineligible players that got Ohio State and Jim Tressel in hot water. It amazes me how many people fail to see that this was the real issue.

Personally, I believe that if you own something you should be free to trade or barter what you own for goods or services or to sell the items if you choose. The NCAA feels differently and they definitely felt differently about covering up the information for 9 months.

 

[TampaBuckeyes]

Tatgate wasn't the really bad news. It was the lying and coverup of Tatgate and the subsequent playing of ineligible players that got Ohio State and Jim Tressel in hot water. It amazes me how many people fail to see that this was the real issue.

Personally, I believe that if you own something you should be free to trade or barter what you own for goods or services or to sell the items if you choose. The NCAA feels differently and they definitely felt differently about covering up the information for 9 months.

Yes, the real issue was the cover up by Tressel and the administration. It was that when Tressel found out he hit 'delete' instead of 'forward'.
Now if we compare that to Oregon, there wasn't a cover up. There wasn't a cover up because the Chip Kelly/ the University of Oregon was the one who wrote the check. It wasn't a rogue booster or third party like it was with Ohio State, USC or Miami (who then hid what they knew). It wasn't Kelly found out and then hid it, the university was the one that orchestrated it. It is as if Tressel was telling all the players, that so-and-so tattoo parlor would give you cash for your rings and autographs. Yes, Tressel played the athletes after he found about about it, but Chip Kelly played 'ineligable' athletes the moment the check was written, and knew about it the moment the check was written. Yes, the dollar values were smaller, but the offense seems much more grave.

 

[Mike80]

Yes, the real issue was the cover up by Tressel and the administration. It was that when Tressel found out he hit 'delete' instead of 'forward'.

You've been watching too much ESPN. Tress didn't hit delete. Had he deleted the email, the FOIA request that uncovered the email wouldn't have found it and he'd likely still be Ohio State's head coach. Instead, he didn't do anything with the email at all, to include telling the compliance office which became a rather large sin once he signed the form saying he didn't know about any violations, potential or otherwise.

 

[ant80]

You've been watching too much ESPN. Tress didn't hit delete. Had he deleted the email, the FOIA request that uncovered the email wouldn't have found it and he'd likely still be Ohio State's head coach. Instead, he didn't do anything with the email at all, to include telling the compliance office which became a rather large sin once he signed the form saying he didn't know about any violations, potential or otherwise.

Dude, there was communication between JT and the lawyer who leaked the info to JT during the federal investigation. The vest should've deleted all the communication, gone to the sent folder, and deleted all those other communications, and then emptied the trash as well. On top of that, JT had a few conversations with Pryor's mentor in Pennsylvania on that topic, which he should've deleted as well, if he was trying to hide everything. He didn't do all those things, and got caught. You have to know where to look.

 

[AuTX Buckeye]

Dude, there was communication between JT and the lawyer who leaked the info to JT during the federal investigation. The vest should've deleted all the communication, gone to the sent folder, and deleted all those other communications, and then emptied the trash as well. On top of that, JT had a few conversations with Pryor's mentor in Pennsylvania on that topic, which he should've deleted as well, if he was trying to hide everything. He didn't do all those things, and got caught. You have to know where to look.

MEh... wouldn't have mattered, the NSA still woulda had a copy ... just saying :)

 

[buckeyeintn]

Dude, there was communication between JT and the lawyer who leaked the info to JT during the federal investigation. The vest should've deleted all the communication, gone to the sent folder, and deleted all those other communications, and then emptied the trash as well. On top of that, JT had a few conversations with Pryor's mentor in Pennsylvania on that topic, which he should've deleted as well, if he was trying to hide everything. He didn't do all those things, and got caught. You have to know where to look.

Or The Vest could have reported the problem to compliance, and not knowingly played ineligible players. I know that's a novel concept, but he could have actually done what was right. I know there is an argument that he felt it was confidential because it came from an attorney concerning an ongoing investigation, but at a minimum he should have consulted an attorney to verify that.

 

[Mike80]

Dude, there was communication between JT and the lawyer who leaked the info to JT during the federal investigation. The vest should've deleted all the communication, gone to the sent folder, and deleted all those other communications, and then emptied the trash as well. On top of that, JT had a few conversations with Pryor's mentor in Pennsylvania on that topic, which he should've deleted as well, if he was trying to hide everything. He didn't do all those things, and got caught. You have to know where to look.

that's what I said. You aren't saying anything differently. And by "doing anything with the emails", I don't mean talking to the cops or do Pryor's mentor, I mean by not doing anything, he didn't talk to compliance.

this is where the Vest fucked up and it is not that he didn't delete the emails, it's in the fact that he didn't report it to compliance and then signed a document saying he was unaware of any violations or potential violations.

There's a reason he got a 5 year show cause.

 

[Muck]

Nearly everyone I talked to in my travels in the SE...

Well there was your first mistake.

When forced to navigate the uncivilized lands to the south I find it best when meeting the natives to quickly claim you you are a Catholic, or even better a follower of Judaism. There will be an immediate hissing sound & averting of the eyes, leaving you safe to continue your travels unmolested.

 

[CleveBucks]

It doesn't matter if JT deleted the email or not. They're archived the second they hit the server and available for later searching.

 

[Mike80]

It doesn't matter if JT deleted the email or not. They're archived the second they hit the server and available for later searching.

I'm not sure that's entirely true - in fact it could come down to how his Outlook (I'm assuming they are using MS products) was configured. If his email was closed, archiving is easy.....but if his email account was open and "delivering" at the time the emails arrived, it could be different....

For instance:

If he had it set up to deliver to a .pst file, it's very easy to find that it wasn't archived.

 

[LeftCoastBuck]

Exchange manages email at OSU

I'm not sure that's entirely true - in fact it could come down to how his Outlook (I'm assuming they are using MS products) was configured. If his email was closed, archiving is easy.....but if his email account was open and "delivering" at the time the emails arrived, it could be different....

For instance:

If he had it set up to deliver to a .pst file, it's very easy to find that it wasn't archived.

Every email acct at OSU goes through the osu.edu domain and is managed by MS Exchange. That guarantees that all emails are locally stored on computers in the .ost file that is managed by Exchange, and is mirrored into backups per the Exhange server "policies" that are set up by OSU's IT group. The state has requirements for archiving emails, and so does OSU (litigation for example).

You can create a .pst to export email, contacts, etc...but that wouldn't change any of the backups.

 

[Mike80]

Every email acct at OSU goes through the osu.edu domain and is managed by MS Exchange. That guarantees that all emails are locally stored on computers in the .ost file that is managed by Exchange, and is mirrored into backups per the Exhange server "policies" that are set up by OSU's IT group. The state has requirements for archiving emails, and so does OSU (litigation for example).

I hope you mean on the servers - archiving will happen at two places - on the server exchange store and on the shared drive were any .ost or .pst files may be located. They aren't likely to back up a computer's C drive for instance.

BTW It's exceedingly easy to turn off cached exchange mode unless they have that ability disabled by GPO.

You can create a .pst to export email, contacts, etc...but that wouldn't change any of the backups.

which is how I set things up at work since I seem to be on about 500 different distro lists.....and because I like my email to open up when I open Outlook, not when the email servers are available (which sometimes isn't the case with Defense Enterprise Email).

 

[DaveyBoy]

I guarantee you that OSu's email system is on maximum store and retrieve mode and unable to be changed by JT. Had he found someone to help him change this, that would have brought more suspicion.

JT should have reported it at least to an attorney so that he could say he tried to deal with it. Instead, he did the worst thing he old have done.....ignore and ignore then finally acknowledge and communicate.....but it with Compliance r an attorney

The NCAA et us off the hook before the bowl game by allowingusto play but that was assuming that everyone had come clean in that compressed investigation. But Tressel hadn't come clean.

 

[Mike80]

I guarantee you that OSu's email system is on maximum store and retrieve mode and unable to be changed by JT. Had he found someone to help him change this, that would have brought more suspicion.

I doubt it - why would it be more stringent than what we do in the federal government? We have the same rules about retaining records and it's extremely easy to turn off if someone wanted to do so. Usually, the onus for saving and retaining pertinent records is on the user, not the administrator.

JT should have reported it at least to an attorney so that he could say he tried to deal with it. Instead, he did the worst thing he old have done.....ignore and ignore then finally acknowledge and communicate.....but it with Compliance r an attorney

The NCAA et us off the hook before the bowl game by allowingusto play but that was assuming that everyone had come clean in that compressed investigation. But Tressel hadn't come clean.

I don't see anyone disagreeing with that. I really wish we'd skipped the Gator Bowl the following year as well.