Tampa Bay Bucs Fire Jon Gruden, Bruce Allen

[NFBuck]

Maybe Chuckie can head to the NCAA and wow everybody with his SB ring.

 

[DaytonBuck]

Maybe Chuckie can head to the NCAA and wow everybody with his SB ring.

It takes 3 to wow

 

[Brutus1]

not stats... the attitude of the team....

Gruden is not well liked by many people in the organization. He treats staff, players and employees of the Bucs like [censored]. I know several people within the organization (marketing, promotions) and not one person is very fond of him. I've had two personal experiences with him and he was an absolute prick.

I can believe that. It sucks that he had to be an asshole to you and apparently everyone else, I was just making a point that he was not the complete garbage coach that you mentioned. Now, you deal with him alot and see what a douche he is so I can't say anything about that.

I still think it was a bit extreme giving up what they did to get him. I'm sure losing 2 firsts and 2 seconds could not have helped the lasr 6 or 7 years.

On a good note, the Raiders finally won a game in week 16. They've completely sucked since Gruden left. More importantly I shoud say they've never been the same since Gannon left.

 

[Taosman]

Unbelieveable! The once hottest coach in all football is a bum, now?
Not buyin' it.

 

[billmac91]

The local talk radio in Tampa / St. Pete had been calling for Gruden's head for about 3 years.

One thing I always thought plagued the Bucs was terrible drafting at the offensive skill positions. At WR, RB, and QB, they've struck out again and again. Chris Sims was a terrible pick and it eventually got to the point that they were relying on Gradkowski (though Sims did have one pretty good year and was ultimately done in by a terrible injury). Garcia is a serviceable QB, but only when he's surrounded by plenty of talent, which he's never been. Cadillac Williams had never proven he could be an every down back in college, and, since he's been in the NFL, he's further proven his body can't handle that kind of damage. And their draft picks at WR have been just terrible.

I've also always thought Chuckie had a bit of what I will now refer to as "RichRod syndrom," which is an inability or stubborn refusal to alter your offensive scheme so as to mold it around the personnel you actually have. He tries to run this overly-complicated offensive scheme, but is constantly changing his signal caller, so no one ever gets settled in the offense. He even tried to impose this system on Gradkowski when he was struggling just with the basics, and it killed the Bucs that season.

I imagine this move will ultimately be welcomed in Tampa / St. Pete. I think they'll go with a young coach and be patient so they can rebuild over the course of several years. The basics are already there--good young players on the defensive side of the ball and a strong, young offensive line. But they also have a LOT of work to do with the offensive skill positions, and they've got plenty of aging players who play a prominent role on defense.

And yea, I gotta go with Loky on this one. Report after report that Gruden was an egomaniacal prick that treated pretty much everyone like [censored].

How many teams were as far under the cap as the Bucs last season? The drafts were poor, but there is also free agency. Do you think Gruden was content with his roster, or do you think he wished they had signed a few impact players n the off-season.

Not that there roster is depleted, but money-wise they were comparable to the Kansas City Royals this year. In a league with a salary cap, there is no reason to be 30 mil under.

It doesn't excuse the choke job down the stretch, but I don't think he's nearly the bum people are making him out to be. They should have had 3-5 more impact players on the roster but the Glazers were too developing their soccer franchise.

 

[ysubuck]

More Defense and not enough Offense.
'99 they ran into a buzz-saw called the St. Louis Rams.
After that it was 3 seasons, often with perennial backup QB Shaun King taking over from injured or ineffective starters.
But the bottom line answer is lack of Offense, which was largely a conservative offensive plan.

I haven't read this whole thread, but I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here an watch you down play the ability of Shaun King. Do you know who turned Shaun into the QB that he is? Do you? :p

 

[cincibuck]

How many teams were as far under the cap as the Bucs last season? The drafts were poor, but there is also free agency. Do you think Gruden was content with his roster, or do you think he wished they had signed a few impact players n the off-season.

I think this belongs under the Bengals thread.

 

[billmac91]

I think this belongs under the Bengals thread.

were the Bengals 23 mil under the cap in 2008 and be under 30 mil in 2009??

Maybe this says more about Bruce Allen getting fired. The roster was pretty good (lot of credit to McKay) but to be that competitive with 23 mil to spend is surprising. Most teams spend to the salary cap, not sit on 23 mil. 23 mil is a LOT of money to go unused in the NFL.

 

[sandgk]

were the Bengals 23 mil under the cap in 2008 and be under 30 mil in 2009??

Maybe this says more about Bruce Allen getting fired. The roster was pretty good (lot of credit to McKay) but to be that competitive with 23 mil to spend is surprising. Most teams spend to the salary cap, not sit on 23 mil. 23 mil is a LOT of money to go unused in the NFL.

According to this writer (Monday Money Matters) KC is the real poster child for leaving cap room on the table. Looking at some of his earlier screeds (linked within pointed to article) both Bengals and Bucs are poor money managers.

The most important point he makes is that this has longer-term consequences for the flexible and responsive operation of a franchise. A case of dollar-pinching really hurting a franchise in the ensuing years.

 

[Flocka]

Talk radio's wish finally came true. Every time I drove in or around Tampa all I would hear on the radio is hosts and fans who believed Gruden was terrible with personnel and got by with Monty's defense. Also heard that he played favorites and had his certain players he wanted to see succeed over others.

 

[MUBuck]

It takes 3 to wow

Not only that, Gruden's ring was won as a HC. Everyone knows that the O and D coordinators are responsible for success in the NFL.

 

[cincibuck]

were the Bengals 23 mil under the cap in 2008 and be under 30 mil in 2009??

Maybe this says more about Bruce Allen getting fired. The roster was pretty good (lot of credit to McKay) but to be that competitive with 23 mil to spend is surprising. Most teams spend to the salary cap, not sit on 23 mil. 23 mil is a LOT of money to go unused in the NFL.

I confess to not being up to date on the Bengals' spending, except to say that the players bitch about what a cheap ass operation Mikey Boy runs. The club does not get into bidding wars for free agents, drags out negotiations with draft picks until they're lost for the first half of the season, maintains the smallest scouting team in the League. Mikey held a gun to the city's head, "build me a stadium or I move," claiming that the reason the francise was so bad was because they didn't have luxury boxes. The record in the new stadium speaks for itself and not a one of the Luxury Boxes has made a tackle or a touchdown.

Mikey is the epitome of the new generation of owner: spends public money and then claims ownership of the stadium, all the big bucks and decisions are made by members of the family, thrives on corporate communism.

He makes me appreciate Steinbrenner's stubborn refusal to go into profit sharing, "Why should I share profits with other owners if they won't guarantee me that they will spend that money on their baseball operations?" Why indeed.

 

[sepia5]

Talk radio's wish finally came true. Every time I drove in or around Tampa all I would hear on the radio is hosts and fans who believed Gruden was terrible with personnel and got by with Monty's defense. Also heard that he played favorites and had his certain players he wanted to see succeed over others.

One thing that REALLY caused Gruden to lose support with the fan base was his alleged treatment of two fan favorites, Mike Alstott and Shelton Quarles. The Quarles failed physical the team gave as the official reason for his release was rumored to be a baseless cause, this after, if I remember correctly, the guy took pay cuts and played through some legit injuries. A lot of people feel like Gruden was trying to force Alstott out from day one because he didn't think Alstott fit his offensive scheme, a rumor not popular with a fan base that idolized the guy. There were always rumors like this going on (a Simeon Rice failed physical at one point seemed very suspicious to many), and Gruden got a reputation, largely established through the transmission of rumors, for being a guy that didn't really care about his players, would demand pay cuts if they wanted to stick around, would cook up medical reports to help his cause, etc. Don't know how much of it was true, but I'd certainly be wary of hiring the guy if I were an owner. . . .

 

[BuckeyeMafia]

I'll miss Gruden and his December collapses. I had hoped to see more future domination over Grudens boys. Oh well, hopefully no coaching experience hurts Raheem whatever his face is.

 

[cincibuck]

One thing that REALLY caused Gruden to lose support with the fan base was his alleged treatment of two fan favorites, Mike Alstott and Shelton Quarles. The Quarles failed physical the team gave as the official reason for his release was rumored not to be a baseless cause, this after, if I remember correctly, the guy took pay cuts and played through some legit injuries. A lot of people feel like Gruden was trying to force Alstott out from day one because he didn't think Alstott fit his offensive scheme, a rumor not popular with a fan base that idolized the guy. There were always rumors like this going on (a Simeon Rice failed physical at one point seemed very suspicious to many), and Gruden got a reputation, largely established through the transmission of rumors, for being a guy that didn't really care about his players, would demand pay cuts if they wanted to stick around, would cook up medical reports to help his cause, etc. Don't know how much of it was true, but I'd certainly be wary of hiring the guy if I were an owner. . . .

Sounds like a perfect fit in Cincinnati where Mike Brown forced players to bring their own towels. I've enjoyed watching Rackers (Cards) and Anderson (Ravens) taking a shot at the Super Bowl courtesy of Mike Brown's wisdom and financial concerns.