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Subtle racism, ignorance, and stereotyping

BuckeyeNation27 said:
last 4 seasons?
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OK, maybe second best pass ... or last 2 seasons.

Either way, to say Smith can't do anything besides rifle it in there is not true, and I had to put that shit to rest.

Bottom line, this pretty much comes down to the fact that there is no QB debate if Smith doesn't take any money. Smith showed what he was capable of by having one of the greatest performances ever by a buckeye qb, and he STILL is subject to comments like that idiot writer wrote. Why is Smith's ability to throw always doubted? Really, if you want to look for something to hate on him for, it should be the fact that he turns the ball over (purdue) trying to make plays. This is true, and if you look at Tressel's comments about the quarterbacks back before the season, you'll see that's where he wasn't comfortable with Smith. Ask yourself, where did this "smith can't pass" bullshit come from? Think about it. That's what people are getting at when they say Zwick and Smith oughta be combined.

If Smith was white, people wouldn't doubt his ability in the passing game. I think this is due to prejeduce. Using the word "Racism" was probably a bad idea in the thread title, but I think the general point brought up ... prejeduce plays a factor in how people look at football players, is true.

It's cool to talk about it on this board when people shit on Dustin Fox's athleticism, and everybody realizes how stupid it is, but when this "Smith can't pass" garbage starts going around people drink it up and don't realize it's just as stupid (and subtly prejeduced) as saying Fox can't jump.

Trying to get this thread back on subject (who cares about OU baseball on this board. Nobody.) ... where's bucknuts44820 when you need him?
 
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Should Smith be the starter over Zwick-absolutely.
Was the scUM game one of the best performances by an OSU QB ever-definitely.
Has Smith-based on the spring game, and his pre-scUM performances-adequately answered every single question as to whether he will be a consistently solid/quality QB for Ohio State-no, he has not. I think he will-but one great game does not a career make-remember Bellisari against UCLA.
 
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So to all of you guys who are saying Smith doesn't need Zwick's talents to be combined with his own to become a great QB.........do you feel that Smith is our answer to a Leinart/Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers/....?
 
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BuckeyeNation27 said:
So to all of you guys who are saying Smith doesn't need Zwick's talents to be combined with his own to become a great QB.........do you feel that Smith is our answer to a Leinart/Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers/....?
I'm not sure what you are trying to say ... Tressel is going to try to do something on offense this year totally different than what was asked of Smith and Rodgers, and definately at least a little different than Leinart. He's not asking either of these quarterbacks to do what it takes to turn themselves into first round draft prospects, he's asking them to do what it takes to win.

Either way, I think it was already stated (although not as straight-forwardly) that the point of this thread was to point out to white people that what you see when people say uninformed/racially stereotypical things about AJ Hawk or Dustin Fox (which are totally prejeduced), we see when people say stupid uninformed things about Troy Smith, and to get people to realize that prejeduce plays a factor in how people look at players.
 
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my point is the whole racism argument is based on the assumption that Smith can do it all, and to assume he cant throw because he is black is racist. Well, I for one don't think Smith is that great of a pocket QB. So the suggestion that you combine the skills of Smith and Zwick makes a lot of sense to me....and doesnt set off any racial flags.
 
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WestEnd said:
Bottom line, this pretty much comes down to the fact that there is no QB debate if Smith doesn't take any money.
ummm... duh?

Ask yourself, where did this "smith can't pass" bullshit come from?
you?

Think about it. That's what people are getting at when they say Zwick and Smith oughta be combined.
or maybe we would like to see smith make better off the field choices like zwick apparently does? or properly go through is reads before tucking it and running. or putting touch on a pass to a guy 4 yrds away. saying a guy doesn't know how to throw a touch pass DOES NOT make him a bad passer. it simply means he has a lot of room to grow and a lot to learn. once again you are reading only what you want to.

If Smith was white, people wouldn't doubt his ability in the passing game. I think this is due to prejeduce. Using the word "Racism" was probably a bad idea in the thread title, but I think the general point brought up ... prejeduce plays a factor in how people look at football players, is true.
huh... i bitched about krenzel, bellisorry, zwick, AND smith.. *ponders* does that make me an equal opportunity racist? i have reservations about running qb's and always will. A. running qb's take longer to mature into what i envision as a "perfect" passer and generally make more mistakes along the way. why? because you are melding a tb and a qb. it takes longer to perfect 2 skills than it does 1. they make more mistakes because they generally have more opportunity to. B. as our d has proved time and time again. when you face a running qb, all you need to do is stop him from running. more often than not, when you go up against a running qb if you can keep him in the pocket his throwing suffers. not because they are less capable passers, but because you have disrupted their rythm. you cut off a part of someones game, knock em down a few times, and get into their head... all the sudden they are alot less effective. so in taking out 1 guy, you have in effect stopped 2 different attacks. both the run and the pass. we have seen our d do this to countless running qbs...

It's cool to talk about it on this board when people shit on Dustin Fox's athleticism, and everybody realizes how stupid it is, but when this "Smith can't pass" garbage starts going around people drink it up and don't realize it's just as stupid (and subtly prejeduced) as saying Fox can't jump.
your right, saying troy smith isn't the greatest qb in the history of mankind is clearly a racist remark. saying troy smith might actually have something to learn, that zwick might actually have a certain segment of his game that troy could take note of... pure and blatant racism! why? becaust troy smith is perfect.

you need to relax, just because im not singing smith's praises doesn't mean i dislike him.
 
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Some people.. I swear to god..

Man, before this article even came out I made a comment to my brother...

"Smith is definately much better than Zwick, but in my opinion, Smith will lose us at least 1 game on his own."
 
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[QUOTE='68Flask]"...and also the running skills of Troy Smith."



This at the least is an uneducated surmise on the writers part; if not a very stupid and ignorant stereotyping of one white and one black quarterback and their styles.

No one (well, Al and Jesse maybe) likes to look for racism as a cause, yet the above statement does seem to say TS runs better than passes, and infers that the other QB passes better than runs...reinforcing the stereotype. Saying the two combined would be perfect just adds to the inference.

Just a dumb, lazy analysis IMHO. :)[/QUOTE]
OK, guys. I gotta be honest. I hate this kind of disunity.

Here is the original quote. It does not say anything about running, passing or anything else about the two QBs. It just says they are different...
4<SUP>th</SUP> and One – Déjà vu All Over Again – Okay, let’s do this for the second consecutive year – there’s a QB controversy in Columbus. Surprise, surprise. The difference going into this year is that we all got to see what each one could do. And, also, not do. If you could put the talents of Troy Smith and Justin Zwick together in one QB, that guy could be a Heisman worthy candidate. Rotating QBs are the worst idea the college football gods ever created, but this is one place where it might work because of the varied talents of this pair. Might, being the key word. Either way, when the individual at this position played well last year, the Buckeyes won. When they didn’t, it was ugly. Very ugly.

So, I thought, gosh, perhaps this stuff is inside. Nope, doesn't say Zwick is a better passer or that Smith can't throw. So, where in the heck is the racism? Where is the claim that Zwick is a better passer or that Smith is a better runner?

Despite all the talent on offense, Tressel-ball needs a quarterback who doesn't turn the ball over and can keep the chains moving. Troy Smith is an efficient thrower and a good runner, but he's not a pure passer and has to prove he can be counted on after his off-the-field issues. On the other hand, Justin Zwick is too conservative needing to have "don't think, just throw" tattooed on his wrist. Zwick is the opening day starter and has to show why Smith shouldn't take over the reins in game two, but he has to find his accuracy and play up to his talent level. There's talk of quarterbacks coach Joe Daniels using a two quarterback system.Player to keep an eye on: Todd Boeckman, RFr. ... Quarterback Rating: 8Projected Starter
- Justin Zwick, Jr. - The golden boy recruit was supposed to be a major upgrade over Craig Krenzel talent-wise, but it didn't happen in his first year as a starter. At 6-4 and 225 pounds, Zwick is a big passer with a live arm and prototype NFL tools. However, he never looked comfortable and outside of a brilliant performance against Marshall, never got his accuracy on track. And then came the Alamo Bowl against Oklahoma State. Banged up early, Zwick gutted it out completing 17 of 27 passes for 189 yards and a touchdown. While Troy Smith is the more explosive quarterback, but don't be too shocked if there's a mix of starters or if Zwick hangs on to the number one spot for the Texas showdown.

Top Backups
- Troy Smith, Jr. - With Justin Zwick struggling, Smith came in and gave the offense a shot in the arm highlighted by a 241-yard, two touchdown, 18-carry, 145-yard, one rushing score performance in the win over Michigan that had everyone's jaw dropped. By now, everyone knows Smith took money from a booster and was suspended for the Alamo Bowl and the 2005 opener against Miami University, but he'll be back and ready to roll for the Longhorns. With his rushing skills and all-around talents, don't expect him out of the mix for long.
- Todd Boeckman, RFr. - A very big 6-5, 235-pound bomber with good athleticism, Boeckman will be used as a scout teamer and emergency quarterback. He has a good arm and has looked good enough to see time with the first team in practice.


Unless I am the village idiot and have missed something, can we please move on now?
 
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Martin, you qouted everything I said in my last post EXCEPT for the part where I noted that what smith doesn't do well is take care of the football. Then you accused ME of "only reading what I want to." If you "read" my other posts on this thread, you'd see that I actually already said it would be great to combine smith's game with zwick's eligibility. So yes, Smith could learn something from Zwick when it comes to keeping yourself out of trouble, but he had to learn that on his own.

But do you really think that (or even the turnover thing) what the original writer of the buckeye preview was implying when he wrote the article? My point ( and I think buckeyetrails point ) was to get you to realize that sometimes what gets passed off as knowledge of football players is actually prejeduce (note that prejeduce and racism are different words and mean different things).

i've also tried to be very carefull how I worded my posts because I know that most of the people who read this board are white and from my experience they don't take these kind of discussions well. Don't be so sensitive. I agree with most of what you say regarding a "running" QB, and a little of your Zwick V. Smith comparison, but I really am not trying to compare Zwick and Smith. I'm just trying to point out that alot of the things that Smith supposedly doesn't do well, he actually does do pretty well.

So yes, I guess troy smith is perfect ...
 
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I don't think this has been mentioned: maybe the writer thought Troy Smith would be a better QB if he had Zwick's height, which is perfect for a pocket-passer. That's certainly going to be an issue when Smith is trying out for NFL teams in a couple years: a QB with Smith's height (and speed) will always fight an uphill battle to be viewed as a pure passer.
 
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