• New here? Register here now for access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Plus, stay connected and follow BP on Instagram @buckeyeplanet and Facebook.

Speed

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
High Lonesome said:
this post could incite riots on any texas board.....UT, ATM, SMU, Baylor, TCU, any of them............they would all have a hissy fit, right or wrong, it could be fun to watch
Click to expand...

I'll take the foursome of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, and Penn State over any foursome out of Texas, anytime. My foursome contains the #1 (UM), #2 (ND), #6 (OSU), and #10 (PSU) ten teams of all time. The top four Texas teams come in at 3rd (Texas), 22nd (A&M), 51st (North Texas), and 63rd (Houston). FYI, TCU is 64th, Baylor is 67th, and SMU is 80th.
 
Upvote 0
Since speed has only developed into its current level of importance over the last 20-25 years, looking at the all time records doesn't really address that issue (although the point is otherwise accepted on an all-time basis).

What I do find odd is that I can find 100 meter times on most of the fastest players at UT and equivalent information is hard to find for most other schools. It may have more to do with warmer weather, a longer track season, more popularity of track, and Mack Brown's recruit selection process. However Ohio State has certainly proven that athletes from northern climates can be just as fast when properly coached and conditioned.

I do take exception to the inclusion of Nebraska as a strictly northern state with regard to this debate, since they were unable to win their recent national championships until they recruited speed players from out of state (generally from the south) that could match the play of the Florida schools. OU is also a school that would have zero national championships without Texas players.

I would still love to see an equivalent list to the one that follows from any other university claiming to have recruited a lot of fast athletes.

Quan Cosby 10.46 FAT 100m (State UIL Meet)
Jamaal Charles 6.65 60m (NCAA Championships) 10.69 FAT 100 m (State)
Ryan Palmer 10.50 FAT 100m (State Meet)
Ramonce Taylor 10.66 FAT 100m State meet also 10.57
Montre Webber 10.67 FAT 100m (Regional UIL Meet)
Michael Griffin 10.64 FAT 100m (Regional)
Marcus Griffin (Michael's twin with similar speed)
Deon Beasely 10.55 Hand 100m (recent meet I don't remember)
Brandon Foster 10.5 Hand 100m (per bio)
Aaron Ross 10.5 Hand 100m per bio)
Matt Melton 10.77 FAT 100m regional
Jordan Shipley 10.83 FAT 100m (Texas Relays)
Selvin Young 10.6 Hand (per bio)
Billy Pittman 10.98 FAT 100m (Texas Relays)
Drew Kelson 10.8 Hand (per bio)
There are some others, but I don't remember them off the top of my head.
 
Upvote 0
This has been a pretty good debate. Here's my final stance:
- OSU is what matters the most, b/c I say so
- Elite ohio speed is as good as elite southern speed, and OSU takes almost all of it
- Southern speed is not superior vs OSU... therefore
- Southern speed is a myth :p
xrayrandy said:
I do take exception to the inclusion of Nebraska as a strictly northern state with regard to this debate, since they were unable to win their recent national championships until they recruited speed players from out of state (generally from the south) that could match the play of the Florida schools. OU is also a school that would have zero national championships without Texas players.
Click to expand...
2005 recruits from Nebraska (0 five stars, 1 four star, rest are three and below)
2005 recruits from Oklahoma (1 five star, 3 four stars, rest are three and below)
2005 recruits from Ohio (2 five stars, 13 four stars)

If we're going to start nullifying "northern" teams for having outside talent, then can you count teams like Tennessee who definitely are a presence in the north?
 
Upvote 0
My comment re Nebraska was historical, not 2005, and in reference to comments about this list.

1990: Georgia Tech and Colorado
1991: Miami and Washington
1992: Alabama
1993: Florida State
1994: Nebraska
1995: Nebraska
1996: Florida
1997: Michigan and Nebraska
1998:Tennessee
1999: Florida State
2000: Oklahoma
2001: Miami
2002: Ohio State
2003: LSU and USC
2004: USC (Auburn)
2005: Texas
Click to expand...

I also think that the issue is not southern as in old south, but rather warm weather states which includes much of California, where kids with a knack for running can run year round and develop their speed from a young age. Keep in mind that I do feel that northern athletes can develop the same speed given proper training when they have the necessary underlying genetic makeup.

Note that CU is a another school that recruited heavily in Ca and to a lessor extent TX for skill/speed players.

Of those championship teams from warm weather areas, I seriously doubt they had a substantial number of speed players from colder weather states, while the opposite is usually true, to a degree.
 
Upvote 0
xrayrandy said:
I do take exception to the inclusion of Nebraska as a strictly northern state with regard to this debate, since they were unable to win their recent national championships until they recruited speed players from out of state (generally from the south) that could match the play of the Florida schools. OU is also a school that would have zero national championships without Texas players.
Click to expand...

Nebraska is a northern team regardless of where they recruit. As for Oklahoma having no national titles without Texas players, how many of those Texas players were speed players and how many were power players (OL, DL, LB)? Your statements there have nothing to do with speed.

Ohio State proved in its title game with the Hurricanes that a northern team made up almost exclusively of northern athletes can be as fast as the fastest southern team which was made up almost exclusively of "speed south" athletes.
 
Upvote 0
bkochmc said:
I'm trying to figure out if you are making fun of Thump or if you saw my initial post and thought "Here's an idiot that doesn't know Jesse Owens is from Alabama!" without seeing my reply to Thump a page or two ago.

Yes, I know Owens was born in Alabama but did most of his growing up in Ohio. I could also tell you that after the Olympics he made money by racing horses and eventually died of lung cancer because he was a habitual smoker. In any case, it doesn't matter and in retrospect maybe I shouldn't have posted those pictures since it was a tongue-in-cheek jab at the whole "southern speed" argument.
Click to expand...
to be honest, i hit that 'quote' button before i saw Thump's reponse to you, and before i saw your response to Thump.
 
Upvote 0
xrayrandy said:
Since speed has only developed into its current level of importance over the last 20-25 years, looking at the all time records doesn't really address that issue (although the point is otherwise accepted on an all-time basis).

What I do find odd is that I can find 100 meter times on most of the fastest players at UT and equivalent information is hard to find for most other schools. It may have more to do with warmer weather, a longer track season, more popularity of track, and Mack Brown's recruit selection process. However Ohio State has certainly proven that athletes from northern climates can be just as fast when properly coached and conditioned.

I do take exception to the inclusion of Nebraska as a strictly northern state with regard to this debate, since they were unable to win their recent national championships until they recruited speed players from out of state (generally from the south) that could match the play of the Florida schools. OU is also a school that would have zero national championships without Texas players.

I would still love to see an equivalent list to the one that follows from any other university claiming to have recruited a lot of fast athletes.

Quan Cosby 10.46 FAT 100m (State UIL Meet)
Jamaal Charles 6.65 60m (NCAA Championships) 10.69 FAT 100 m (State)
Ryan Palmer 10.50 FAT 100m (State Meet)
Ramonce Taylor 10.66 FAT 100m State meet also 10.57
Montre Webber 10.67 FAT 100m (Regional UIL Meet)
Michael Griffin 10.64 FAT 100m (Regional)
Marcus Griffin (Michael's twin with similar speed)
Deon Beasely 10.55 Hand 100m (recent meet I don't remember)
Brandon Foster 10.5 Hand 100m (per bio)
Aaron Ross 10.5 Hand 100m per bio)
Matt Melton 10.77 FAT 100m regional
Jordan Shipley 10.83 FAT 100m (Texas Relays)
Selvin Young 10.6 Hand (per bio)
Billy Pittman 10.98 FAT 100m (Texas Relays)
Drew Kelson 10.8 Hand (per bio)
There are some others, but I don't remember them off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
i'm not going to go through and post times, but IIRC, at the 2004 National High School Track Meet, Cleveland Glenville's A team took 1st overall, a Texas HS took 2nd, and Glenville's B team took 3rd. to repeat: Glenville's SECOND STRING took third in the Nation. fuck southern speed. it's all about CLEVELAND speed!
 
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
Texas, and other schools in warmer states, seldom run indoor. Why would they? There are over 50 Texas 4x200 relay teams that ran faster outdoor in 2005 than the fastest indoor time in 2006. Given those two factors your indoor meet spin is beyond weak.

As for population, having nearly twice the population alone does not explain the 7x or 8x factor for track times.
 
Upvote 0
xrayrandy said:
Texas, and other schools in warmer states, seldom run indoor. Why would they? There are over 50 Texas 4x200 relay teams that ran faster outdoor in 2005 than the fastest indoor time in 2006. Given those two factors your indoor meet spin is beyond weak.

As for population, having nearly twice the population alone does not explain the 7x or 8x factor for track times.
Click to expand...

Well running indoor is the only way to compare times.

We have worst weather here in Ohio, along with alot more snow.
 
Upvote 0
I have also given some thought to the debate regarding football prowess between the north and south. For my part I tend to divide the country north to south geographically roughly along the 37th parallel. You can think of it as a line roughly along the northern borders of North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma , New Mexico, Arizona and bisecting California. I hope not to offend any Virginians, but given the geography of the states I can't think of a better place to draw the line.

Then if you look at schools that have a BCS, AP, USAToday/UPI championship, and give 1/2 credit for split championships, you can come up with the following data.

Over the last 10 years the geographically southern states are winning 8-2 in what is looking like a serious trend.

2000-2005 South 5 to 1
1990-1999 South 6 to 4
1980-1989 South 6 to 4
1970-1979 South 6 to 4
1960-1969 South 6.5 to 3.5
1950-1959 South 6 to 4
Total 35.5 to 20.5

Let that soak in for a moment. The geographically northern states have not dominated NCAA football since the 1940s.
 
Upvote 0
2005 Texas (13-0)
2004 USC (13-0)
2003 Louisiana State (13-1) Southern California (12-1)
2002 Ohio State (14-0)
2001 Miami (12-0)
2000 Oklahoma (13-0)
1999 Florida State (12-0)
1998 Tennessee (13-0)
1997 Michigan (12-0) Nebraska (13-0)
1996 Florida (12-1)
1995 Nebraska (12-0)
1994 Nebraska (13-0)
1993 Florida State (12-1)
1992 Alabama (13-0)
1991 Washington (12-0) Miami (12-0)
1990 Colorado (11-1-1) Georgia Tech (11-0-1)
1989 Miami (11-1)
1988 Notre Dame (12-0)
1987 Miami (12-0)
1986 Penn State (12-0)
1985 Oklahoma (11-1)
1984 Brigham Young (13-0)
1983 Miami (11-1)
1982 Penn State (11-1)
1981 Clemson (12-0)
1980 Georgia (12-0)
1979 Alabama (12-0)
1978 Alabama (12-1) Southern Cal (12-1)
1977 Notre Dame (11-1)
1976 Pittsburgh (12-0)
1975 Oklahoma (11-1)
1974 Oklahoma (11-0) Southern Cal (10-1-1)
1973 Notre Dame (11-0) Alabama (11-1)
1972 Southern Cal (12-0)
1971 Nebraska (13-0)
1970 Nebraska (11-0-1) Texas (10-1)
1969 Texas (11-0)
1968 Ohio State (10-0)
1967 Southern Cal (10-1)
1966 Notre Dame (9-0-1)
1965 Alabama (9-1-1) Michigan St. (10-1)
1964 Alabama (10-1)
1963 Texas (11-0)
1962 Southern Cal (11-0)
1961 Alabama (11-0)
1960 Minnesota (8-2)
1959 Syracuse (11-0)
1958 LSU (11-0)
1957 Auburn (10-0) Ohio State (9-1)
1956 Oklahoma (10-0)
1955 Oklahoma (11-0)
1954 Ohio State (10-0) UCLA (9-0)
1953 Maryland (10-1)
1952 Michigan State (9-0)
1951 Tennessee (10-0)
1950 Oklahoma (10-1)

Listed above are the national champions for the last 55 years. 23 teams that won a national championship are northern schools.

The south does have more elite college football programs than the north, no one can argue that. Partly because a lot of recruits only consider schools with warm weather, like USC or Miami. But the best teams in the north can play as well as the best teams in the south, there are just more elite teams in the south. College kids want to live and play in warm weather, in states like Florida, California, Texas, Georgia, etc. Also the fact that the north has states like Wyoming(493,782), North Dakota(642,200), South Dakota(754,844), Idaho(1,293,953), Montana(902,195), and the entire New England region minus New York that dont even add up to half of Texas' total population(22,118,509) doesnt help.

Northern football has just as much quality as southern football, there just isnt as much quantity. Its human nature, people want to live in warmer states.
The 3 most storied programs of all time are probably OSU, Notre Dame, and Michigan, all northern schools.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top