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Speed of Big10 vs. other conferences

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billmac91;1370673; said:
And I doubt many teams can.....

the point being, stupid commentators take shots at the Big 10 speed, when very few, if any teams would be able to hang with USC's receivers, especially when Sanchez has that much time to throw.
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And, of course, when it's PSU v. Ohio State, what did we hear about? Oh, just how fast PSU's line plays... and how this guy and that guy can keep up with anyone in the country....

It's crap. Oregon State wasn't faster than USC. Oregon State wasn't faster than PSU. Figure that one out.
 
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Slow Iowa beat the speedy defense of South Carolina
Slow Northwestern should have beat speedy Missouri
Slow Michigan State hung in with speedy Georgia for 3 quarters
Anyone who watched the Rose Bowl cannot say PSU was significantly slower than USC... PSU was killed by penalties and mistakes, both self inflicted and caused by USC
Slow Wisconsin was.... well, slow
Same for Minnesota

We'll see how slow Ohio State plays against speedy Texas.
 
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reagdog;1370658; said:
I don't think they were taking their 40 times into consideration, but if you watched the Rose Bowl, the commentators kept bringing up that Penn State can't keep up with USC at pretty much any position.
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Announcers have gotten very lazy, and cater to crap they read on message boards and emails sent to them by fans with nothing else to do.

Several USC receivers were alone not because of speed, but because PSU was confused in coverage. The Lions could've had Usain Bolt back there but if he's playing zone while his safety is playing man, the other team is going to have someone wide open.

If one coach is a step ahead of the other his team will always look faster. That's not "speed", that's scheme.
 
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[quote='BusNative;137068;0]Reag, I know you're relatively knew here, and I like what you do in the H&HG threads, but this conversation is getting [censored]ing old.

Hit the EPSN boards with this. They're easier to understand anyway.[/quote]


So are you basically saying I should stick to H&HG and leave the football talk to the more educated tOSU fans because I am posting stupid shit?
 
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billmac91;1370670; said:
My personal opinion, is come late October/November the style has to give.....You can run 4/5 wideout sets in nice warm weather, but it isn't optimal in 15-20 degree weather with 20mph winds.

Even the teams that run a spread(Northwestern/Purdue/tOSU/Minnesota/PSU), also need to be able to line-up and run the football. There is a reason the spread hasn't nose-dived into the NFL other than the defenses are just too fast. You can't run the spread in the playoffs and late in the regular season.
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billmac91...I agree 100% with every word you typed. I was actually wanting to touch on the weather in my original post...I am not sure why I didnt......must have got distracted.

Also, of the teams you listed, NW,Purdue and Minny are all 2nd tier teams with 2nd (and 3rd) tier recruits. That also hinders the overall perception of the B10.
 
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reagdog;1370645; said:
Don't take this the wrong way Big10 fans, but I keep hearing about the Big10 not having the same speed as other conferences.

I know that certain Big10 teams will have more speed than certain Pac-10, Big12, SEC teams, but the best Big10 teams are being persecuted nationally to have less speed than the best teams from some of the other conferences.

I know tOSU gets really good recruiting classes and I'm sure Penn State and Michigan do too, so why is the Big10 ending up with slower guys?

FYI - this is not my personal opinion because I haven't watched every Big10 team play, but something I keep hearing in articles and during the Rose bowl so please don't shoot the messenger.
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"Speed" is an easy way to explain the talent gap that occurs due to the recruiting inadequacies that negatively impact the Big Ten schools (population shifts, demographics, weather, higher academic standards) vis a vis the other major conferences. Outside of Ohio State, and to some extent Michigan, the Big Ten schools have had difficulty in countering the first two factors (i.e., population shifts, demographics) by bringing in top talent from outside of the local region, primarily because of the second two factors (namely, weather, higher academic standards), which two factors also lead to a talent drain from the midwest to the more "climate friendly" south, southwest, and west coast.

In addition, Big Ten schools, because of the climate in the midwest, have to be built to play "power football" in October and November. Because of the make up of the Big Ten teams, they tend to look "slow" in comparison to SEC, Big-12, and Pac-10 teams in the more-or-less ideal weather conditions of the bowl games ... just like SEC, Big-12, and Pac-10 teams would look "weak" if they had to play bowl games in Cleveland or Milwaukee in a January blizzard. The exact same thing happens in the NFL, where a "fast" team like the St. Louis Rams can win a Super Bowl when every play-off game is in a dome ... but generally the cold weather teams excel in the play-offs precisely because they can handle playing in the cold weather of December and January, and in fact they have a greater than 2-1 advantage over warm weather teams and dome teams in terms of winning the Super Bowl.

So, for a Big Ten team to have success it must: (a) keep the ever-shrinking talent base at home, (b) convince kids from the south, southwest, and west coast not only to leave home but also to come to an often inclement climate, and (c) recruit kids who are versatile enough to play "power" football in November and "speed" football in January. Tough to do all that....
 
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billmac91;1370670; said:
My personal opinion, is come late October/November the style has to give.....You can run 4/5 wideout sets in nice warm weather, but it isn't optimal in 15-20 degree weather with 20mph winds.

Even the teams that run a spread(Northwestern/Purdue/tOSU/Minnesota/PSU), also need to be able to line-up and run the football. There is a reason the spread hasn't nose-dived into the NFL other than the defenses are just too fast. You can't run the spread in the playoffs and late in the regular season.
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I'm not disagreeing with you here because I don't think it's really been attempted sufficiently in the NFL. The Patriots run a lot of shotgun with 4 and 5 wide and they've done really well, and I think there is still room for a Buffalo Bill Jim Kelly offense. But since the term "spread" means different things to different people, it's hard to define.

But yes, I agree that NFL defenses are too fast for the read-option spread stuff. Those plays generally depend on reading the DE, but in the NFL some of those DE's are just as agile as RB's and can run 4.6's, meaning they never really have to commit. Plus, unless you commit to it full time, it would be a really bad idea to have the more mobile NFL quarterbacks taking so many hits from linebackers and safeties.

As far as the Big 10 speed thing goes, I agree that it's the Wisconsin effect. The spread (whichever version you want to talk about) is so prevalent that people kind of freak out when a team lines up in the I all game. Plus, one look at PJ Hill will make anyone think a team is slow, even though he is a good RB.
 
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The primary commentator in the USC-Penn State game saying that USC was so much faster was Kirk Herbstreit. You need to ignore him because he has no ability to be objective. He is frequently on local radio here in Alabama and he makes fun of the Big 10 all the time. He started one call by apologizing for how bad the Big 10 is. Todd Blackledge and Ron Zook have both stated that the primary difference between the Big 10 and the SEC is the speed of the defensive lines. There is probably truth in that. Athletically USC is in a class of their own and not many can play with them when USC is focused. For the good of college football UCLA, Washington, Stanford and others out there in the Pac-10 need to start getting those California kids.
 
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SEC D lines don't strike me as faster than Big Ten D-lines. But, they do strike me as more relentless. They do strike me as more aggressive. They do strike me as more up tempo. But.. faster?

Eh.... not really.

Like LJB said - have the "speed" teams play up north (and I'm not talking about doing so in September) and they'll start talking about how "weak" they are. This, despite the fact that I wouldn't believe for one minute that Glenn Dorsey last year was 'weak' for example.

Likewise - and reference to Herbie made me think of it - with all the attention paid to "high octane" offenses ... the more and more teams build themselves to stop these.... the more a team like Wisconsin (power) will become the novelty that no one can match up with. These things go in cycles, and at the moment it's a passing world.

But

it won't last. It never does. People catch up to it, learn how to stop it.... and then do something different. There will again come a day where you want huge "slow" linemen, because they will simply overpower the ultra fast 230 pound D-Lineman.
 
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Simply put, it doesn't have as much to do with speed as it does with overall talent. The Big Ten was overmatched in nearly every bowl game this season. I do think that defensively the Big Ten (with exception of PSU and OSU) has lacked the physical/speedy blend up front on the line that gives the impression of fast defenses.

All great defenses start up front on the defensive line. Our last three losses to major schools have come to schools that have been very stout up front. IMHO, our defensive line has lacked a pair of dynamic tackles dating back to 2002...... LSU had very physical, aggressive tackles last year. Florida had some very good ones in that 07 title game. Disruption by the tackles allows the LB's to roam free, opening up blitz lanes. It also allows teams to do damage without have to blitz at all. Couple that with good defensive ends (which I don't think is necessarily an issue in the Big Ten) and you have a very good foundation. This foundation can sometimes help cover up weaknesses in other areas of the defense.

I would love to see the Buckeye's get back to having dominant tackles. It (IMHO) is is that extra "something" that I think has kept us from being dominant defensively.

I know that I got off subject with this post, but it's been something that has been on my mind for a bit. What do you all think?
 
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People talk about speed because most of america refuses to think for itself and either clutches to stereotypes or regurgitates what they hear on TV.

OSU's 06 defense was faster than the '02 defense. Jamario O'Neal runs circles around Mike Doss, but he's nowhere near as good of a football player.

Give the b10 better athletes in the trenches and these games look a lot different.
are they actually slower? has a test proven the Big 10 is in fact slower?

For an 11 team conference, the Big 10 sure seems to produce an ample amount of draft picks. GM's must like slow players.
Purdue tests well, especially on defense. That doesn't make them good.

Illinois' current defense has some tremendous athletes. Doesn't make them a good defense.
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