So I got into an argument on FaceBook...

[buxfan4life]

I don't really buy the Ginn argument. Do you really think he would have accounted for 27 points? Troy Smith still couldn't do anything in that game whether he would have had Ginn on the outside or not.

You have to look at it this way:

With a healthy Ginn Jr. in the game, every kick return would be a potential 6 points (as was shown on the opening kick-off) or at least good field position.

With a healthy Ginn Jr. the deep threat was a reallity and the UF DBs would have had to account for that. His presence on the field may have opened up the passing game a bit, and also the run game.


Does having Ginn Jr. in the game make up for 27+ Points? Probably not, but does UF score 41 if OSU doesn't go 3 and out as many times as they did? Again, I would have to say probably not.

Do I say OSU wins with Ginn in the game? Who knows, but I would have to say no, they still lose. Not 41-14, but UF was a much more determined and hungry team than OSU that night and would have won in a dog-fight as well, IMHO.

 

[BB73]

That Buckeye team is the only one in NCAA history to win a pair of AP #1 vs. AP #2 matchups in the same season and not win a national championship. And that sucks.

 

[WolverineMike]

I agree that with Ginn in the game the score isn't that lopsided.

 

[Gatorubet]

To clarify, that game was one when everything went our way, and everything did not go yours. Not reflective of how ten of them would be played, and I never have claimed that. You gave us some out of character personal fouls that first half, and we made first downs by a couple inched several times. It just was just one of those days. I was a big fan of your defensive scheme that day :p, and after your big rushing TD, you came back with three pass plays. I was elated. So sometimes you just have one of those good days when you get some breaks. And since we kind of owned your o-line that day, it usually goes only one way after that.

I think Tress had his best year the next year. You had no reason to repeat with the turnover you had, but he had you back in a great coaching job, only to catch shit for losing one you should hever have been in. Again - IMHO.

 

[jwinslow]

"it will be a cold day in hell when tressel forgets to feed his rb", and boy was it cold that day.

For all the deserved hype about the pass protection whipping, the opposite went largely unnoticed. pittman had a very steady day on the ground. He just did not get the ball enough.

As for the defensive scheme, after iowa's busch league cheapshot on anderson russell's knee (away from the play in special teams) knocked him out for the year (and he never was the same despite starting thr three following years)...

Osu was left with a good but young jenkins, a smart but limited former walkon in smith, a frosh in washington, and two very mediocre safeties. Any other year osu had the secondary to be aggressive, but they were very limited in personnel. Of course dropping a dl every down wasnt the smartest choice.

Thst was a game where tressel had the exact opposite squad and winning formula from most years. He had to give his young defense a lead, protect his secondary, feature the pass as much as the run.

It showed in the bizarre untressellike moment going for it on 4th.

 

[jwinslow]

Ginn does not fix the defense, but he dramatically shifted the coverage. Before it was clear he was done, the corners were lined up a lot further back. They saw the film, aaron ross could not handle him, nor could leon hall, and both were top draft picks that spring. When he was no longer a threat, they marched their corners up and made them earn those yards.

 

[JBaney45]

It showed in the bizarre untressellike moment going for it on 4th.

I don't know, if you actually go back and look at our bowl games, Tressel has actually always tended to be a bit more aggressive with the play calling on offense.

In the 2003 Miami game we had the fake field goal early on (passing up on about a sure of a 3 points you could ask for with Mike Nugent) is the obvious example that comes to mind, but I think in general if you look how we flung the ball around against teams like Kansas State, Notre Dame and Oregon you see a bit more aggressiveness then you might from Tress. Even with the Texas game where we brought out Boeckman to add the wrinkle. I don't have all the stats right in front of me, but I would bet if you looked at them you'd see some more aggressive play calling, even if the offenses weren't always productive in the bowl games.

The field position definitely made it a big gamble, but although Beanie didn't have a ton of big plays to his name as a freshmen (exception: Michigan game) he was regularly called on throughout the year in those 4th and 1 situations and I'm not sure if I remember a time before that in which he didn't get it.


Touching on the Ginn thing, I don't think you can underestimate how much different the offense was without Ginn. The 2006 passing attack was based on Ginn's constant deep threat forcing the defense to play on their heels and opening up space underneath for Gonzo/Robo/Hartline and whoever else Troy wanted to get the ball too. If you single covered Ginn, then he's going deep and Troy's hitting him for 6 every time. To say he made the entire 27 point difference is a bit extreme, but he puts us into a position to move the ball more consistently, which gives us a chance to compete which is all you need as a team.

 

[WolverineMike]

"it will be a cold day in hell when tressel forgets to feed his rb", and boy was it cold that day.

For all the deserved hype about the pass protection whipping, the opposite went largely unnoticed. pittman had a very steady day on the ground. He just did not get the ball enough.

As for the defensive scheme, after iowa's busch league cheapshot on anderson russell's knee (away from the play in special teams) knocked him out for the year (and he never was the same despite starting thr three following years)...

Osu was left with a good but young jenkins, a smart but limited former walkon in smith, a frosh in washington, and two very mediocre safeties. Any other year osu had the secondary to be aggressive, but they were very limited in personnel. Of course dropping a dl every down wasnt the smartest choice.

Thst was a game where tressel had the exact opposite squad and winning formula from most years. He had to give his young defense a lead, protect his secondary, feature the pass as much as the run.

It showed in the bizarre untressellike moment going for it on 4th.

when did that happen? got a link. I never heard about that.

 

[Gatorubet]

Ginn does not fix the defense, but he dramatically shifted the coverage. Before it was clear he was done, the corners were lined up a lot further back. They saw the film, aaron ross could not handle him, nor could leon hall, and both were top draft picks that spring. When he was no longer a threat, they marched their corners up and made them earn those yards.

Well, stepping away from the game and looking at it like neither of us had a dog in that hunt (if that's possible), if a team does not have more than one receiver that can give the other team a problem, a reasonable person could admit that such a - condition - could be interpreted as that team's depth not being sufficient for a BCS Championship caliber team.

Adversity will always play a part in any BCSCG stretch run. But when you get down to it, you have to get it done in the game - no matter what is thrown at you, bad calls, injuries, turnovers, etc. Again, this applies to - say - any team not being able to score a TD given four tries from the two. Doesn't mean that any team examined in that light is not a great team. Just that those teams have a chink somewhere in the full suit of armor that renders them incapable of being Champions that year.

 

[jwinslow]

Tressel always gets more aggressive in bowl games, but he does not gamble the entire game away on one play in the first half.

Osu actually had a lot of wr depth, gonzo was a first round slot, robiskie a 2nd round possession wr, hartline a steady long target who starts in the league. They just weren't themselves without the teddy or troy they leaned on for three years.

It's like florida's passing attack, murphy was a good wr who went onto nfl success, but percy opened things up big time.


As for flaws, I would submit that the glorious 4 year run has yer to face a true nc competitor. Not because of greatness on their own part, but because bush and young were the last truly great teams.

Ou got exposed the game before their ridiculous nc berth.

Osu's d got exposed by michigan (the first team to keep pace, as tex and niu ran all over osu until they fell behind), and that osu offense was a shell of itself (some more fattened than others, mentslly and physically)

The 07 nc was an absolute joke. No one deserved a shot that yr.

08 was a good not great opponent for uf. They faced the second best team in the b12 south.

09 saw another huge injury in the sec's favor, and that texas team would lose by a good margin to the 05 squad.

Same can be said for osu. The 02 and 05 teams would beat up the 06 squad, and I think 03, 09 would be very competitive.


Just once, I want to see the sec run into a usc 04, texas 05 or even an osu 02. The majority of their opponents have been more tilted towards offensive strength, unlike many of the best squads from the first half of the decade.

I do not think uf 06, lsu 07 fare very well against the 01 canes, 02 bucks, 04 trojans, 05 horns. In those years you had some amazing teams that missed the nc like osu 05, usc many times, etc.

We have really had a sharp step back in defensive prowess from the top dogs imo.

P.s. No clip for the iowa injury, it was 06 at their yellow out, and it happened on the way to a commercial break so it went largely unnoticed iirc.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

It showed in the bizarre untressellike moment going for it on 4th.

Beanie got that first down...refs just didn't give it to him.

 

[Gatorubet]

Beanie got that first down...refs just didn't give it to him.

Sure looks like he could have. Never saw the ball, so don't know if it was being held as he normally did, or if it was nearer his waist due to being stripped, etc.

But if I recollect, that mistake, if it was one, only resulted in a FG. Might have been a psychological/momentum key for both sides. I remember there seemed to be a sort of malaise on your side - I was watching the bench with my binoculars and many seemed to be sitting rather emotionless on the bench. (I was there and never saw the original TV broadcast outside of hi-lite clips and an i-pod cast)

But Mili is right - he surged over the line with his head and shoulders, and it looked like the ball might have crossed the imaginary line if Beanie was holding it pressed against his upper chest. That you cannot see in the mass of bodies, so they call on the field had to stand.

But like LJB said in the game thread, Beanie should have been on the bench watching the punt team.