Simplify

[scooter1369]

Recently, my wife and I were discussing our lifestyle. The expenses, the excesses, the consumption, the hustle and the happiness level.

We both agreed that with two kids so wrapped up in their in sports and activities that our hectic schedules and stresses are essentially our own fault.

We live in Hilliard to keep our kids in this school district. And with that comes high taxes, high mortgage payments and an expectation of certain things on our kids among their peers. (i.e. fashion, cell phones, behavior, etc...)

We have also agreed that with all of this, neither of us are happy, but for different reasons.

My wife's unhappiness derives from the financial struggle to provide for our girls at level higher than what we were provided for by our own parents. Softball lessons, private instructors, taekwondo classes, tournament appearances, Travel ball registration and so on. We don't shop at Macy's and JC Penney for all of our girls' clothes, we rely on Target. We get our kids' shoes from Stride Rite, not the expensive mall stores. And as a female that grew up in upper arlington, my wife truly wants our girls to have that opportunity to be popular in school, something she never had.

My unhappiness comes from the constant push to acheive these things. While I think my daughters' particpation in sports are vital not only for their health but also due to the social aspects of their growth (I could start a whole new thread on this subject and title IX if I wanted to), I think the need to fit in at school and match the spending habits of the Hilliard elite is pointless and less than beneficial to our girls' over all mental health.

I recently suggested to my wife that we make a change of scenery and location. She wants to be an at-home mom. Living in Hilliard, this simply is not possible. We need every dime of our two incomes to live the way we do here. So I suggested a move to the country, where I could possibly provide for the family by myself, allow her to be an at-home mom and we could focus on a simpler, more family oriented life.

She is not willing to giving up the status of our Hilliard home, our consuming ways and close proximity to her parents in order to acheive a better lifestyle.

I had initially dropped a post similar to this in a different thread and decided it did not match the topic enough and deleted it. Well, Clarity saw the post before I deleted and agreed it was a topic worth discussing in its own right.

So I guess the point of the thread is this:

Would the US be a better place, if we returned to a core values, family oriented lifestyle and spent less time trying to win the rat race and meet the impossible demands of big city/suburban life?

discuss

 

[Appalachin St.]

YES! Absolutley yes! I am an OSU grad and know the neighborhoods very well and understand if you are in Dublin, Olentangy, Bexley, Hilliard, Upper Arlington, and maybe a couple more the pressure to fit in and keep up with the "jones" type mentality. We have 3 young children and live in a well off western suburb of Cleveland. I recently purchased a company and with the "great" economy, have looked at worst case scenarios and if things started to fall apart with the business, expenses that could be cut.

Spending money and buying "stuff" is sometimes away with dealing/hiding other problems. You have to do what is right for your family, even if that is not what makes them happy today! Just because you move from Hilliard to a smaller less expensive town, does not mean you have failed! It just means you have different priorities than some of the other people. For our family we are looking to give our kids a Catholic Education. We don't drive BMW's or Lexus's and try to watch what we spend and ask is it something we "need" rather than a "want".

There is a lot of pressure, but the key is your children are happy within in your means, you and your wife are happy in your own lives, and they learn core values from the whole family about what is important. I know a lot of very rich people who are not very happy!

Good Luck!

 

[Jaxbuck]

Would the US be a better place, if we returned to a core values, family oriented lifestyle and spent less time trying to win the rat race and meet the impossible demands of big city/suburban life?

discuss

Wow, I don't venture from the football forums much but I'm glad I did for this one. My wife and I have almost this exact same discussion all the time.

My wife does stay home but we still have this discussion. I'm not so much worried about the US being a better place, my concern is that we are raising our children to ultimately run the same race we so badly want out of. I only see 2 solutions.

1) Accept the social/emotional impact of dropping out of the race now.

2) Achieve financial independence for the next generation with whats left of our lives and teach them the single most important thing they can do is find a way to make their lifes work be something they love.

"If there was no such thing as money(or the need for it) what would you do with your life?"

I simply want my kids to have an answer for that question and do as much as I can to make sure the no need for money part is as true as I can make it. Now thats not going to be unlimited wealth but if it can be no student loans and a healthy inheritance, I'll be satisfied.

Sorry if this isn't where you were going with this thread but thats my .02 on the rat race, beat it or get out. I honestly don't know which is best, probably to just get out but I'm not strong enough to be able to do that.

 

[rocketman]

"Simplification" to me is moving to the city. By ditching my car, and living within walking-bike-public transport distance from work, I could save a LOT of cash. This is, however, coming from someone who is a young professional with no kids to raise. I'm sure that perspective will change entirely when I have children.

 

[Best Buckeye]

As a 66 year aged young guy I can tell you absolutely that the core valued, family oriented lifestyle. is the way too go. The keeping up with the joneses deal tempts itself with a form of vanity which no one needs.
Just as you say the pressures of being involved with everything in todays world can be worse than living a simple life .
It is possible that the pressure of being so active puts excessive strain on everyone's relationship that it is detrimental to the family well being.
Both of you are unhappy with the situation and your kids know it. What are you doing to them? How do they handle it?
What good is an action if we destroy ourselves performing it ? I think both of you have good intentions towards yourselves and your kids and in maintaining the whole family but you don't have to be Warren Buffet to do it.
So I believe in living life at a pace I can achieve without overextending my capabilities and do what I need and can do to help my children through their lives. I never tried to get them to over achieve . I more or less assisted them in making their own choices.
I have two girls and we never felt they had to be popular in school or do everything. It is more important to make good friends and that is how we guided them.
We got them thru tOSU and now they are both teachers and doing well in life and are happy.
So I guess what I am saying is work as hard as you want to but don't overload the family to the point where it is detrimental to it , or any one member and everything will work out great.
And if you do then simplify it. I wonder if your girls will put their kids thru what you two are?

 

[shetuck]

Good on you scoot... it take a lot of courage to have that conversation, and a good bit of craziness to pose it on BP...

My wife and I have always talked about this trade-off. It's a key part of what helps us strengthen out relationship. The choices that follow out of the discussion aren't always easy, but I guess (for us) it's just as much about the process as it is about the result.

The rat race is all empty hype. It's just a bunch of people trying to show (outwardly) that they're "happy". And, after engaging in it for long enough, they actually start to believe that it's the path to contentment. And they even begin to convince themselves that they're doing it for their kids, fully cognizant of the fact that they didn't have any of that *stuff* when they grew up and they were happier without.

The bottom-line, imo, is that the rat race is the most dangerous and most addictive drug for the middle class.

Between the two of us, my wife and I have SEVEN degrees... three undergrad and four gradudate. She's chosen to stay at home with our kids, when she could easily be pulling in as much money as I do.

Because we've made the choice to live on my income only, we can only afford a tiny two-bedroom / one bath house. We're cramped, but there's nothing that says that if we had more space, we'd be happier. We have to live in a more simple, less wasteful way because there just isn't any extra space for us to put extra junk.

We've also made the choice to own only one car. It's difficult to manage, but it's a worthwhile effort, imo...

These and other related choices haven't been easy to live with, but I can say we're truly happy. And, financially, we're blessed because living well within our means means that my wife and I don't argue or debate about money. Instead, what we spend our time talking about is what we can do to provide for our kids' needs - not needs in terms of *stuff*, but in terms of spending time with them. While our kids have plenty of friends from school and around the neighborhood who are fairly well equipped with the latest trappings and toys, they seem happy to trade off time with us for spiderman outfits and hannah montana bags.

There's something else that factors into the equation. We've chosen to live where we live, in our little 1000 SF house because it means that our kids live three doors down from their grandparents. I know you're thinking, "Hey free 24 hour babysitting...", but it's really not about that at all. I remeber the influence my grandparents had on me and I'd like to give my kids that grounding, as well. Having free access to their grands is priceless for them in these early formative years. The interaction and the constant praise and encouragement they receive from the grands is helping them form a backbone so that later on in their teens, when society starts to push and tug at them to make them conform, they'll be able to stand their ground because they have a sense of their history and heritage.

That's our hope, anyway. I don't think it would work if both of us were outside busy working and bringing in money because frankly I think our kids are happier having our time and attention rather than our money.

And one more thing... F*CK M*CH*G*N!!!

 

[MrsB]

You can't beat a loving family that has each one supporting the other. And there is no sense tryng to enjoy life if you don't take the time to enjoy what you do.

 

[Gatorubet]

She is not willing to giving up the status of our Hilliard home, our consuming ways and close proximity to her parents in order to acheive a better lifestyle.

Discuss.

Universal problem. My practice has suffered because I do not put in the enormous amount of time some lawyers do at work. To be fair to my clients I take less cases. But I do lots of church and youth related stuff, and help care for our two 80 plus year old moms, all of which requires a significant investment in time.

I'd love to live Uptown near our church, but I'm not gonna spend the 500 to 800K to do it and have to hit the rat race for the next fifteen years.

I am doing better than my folks did, and I do not need the plane and yacht to be happy like some folks think. The richest guys I know are the
most often divorced, with train wreck kids. So simplify and raise the kids. They are job one. And the values of not having to keep up with the Jones will actually vaccinate your kids from lots of future pitfalls and problems that come from seeking more and more money as an end unto itself. Greed destroys lives.

 

[OCBucksFan]

Hrm... well, having been a child who grew up having less than most of the kids I can try to give you my perspective. When I was in school, kids were wearing Town and Country T-shirts, we had a morning surf club, and everyone had a nice skateboard. Where I was the kid who had the swap meet knock off shirts, and that skateboard that was always on sale at K-mart for 10 bucks because the thing weighed about 30 pounds.

And yeah, especially in SoCal, that stuff defines how people view you. It's stupid that it does, but people don't want to be seen with someone who's not of their social status. Face it, in school you wanted to be seen with all the popular kids because it meant you were popular, and the pretty girls would look at you, and you could have that friend who had the car and get to go to all the cool parties.

It lead me to essentially say "fuck it" and shave off most of my hair, dye it different colors and essentially hang out with a group who were on the aggressive other end of that social status. Instead of being with the cool kids, I chose to, instead, hang with the punks and beat up the cool kids.

The "Class War" idea is very alive, especially in high school, the idea of "Core Values" has completely changed in this country. What people see as "cool" is Paris Hilton, she's rich and goes to all the parties, or Angelina Jolie, she's using her money to collect a child from every country. Instead, I think the idea of cool should be to a hard working parent, who, instead of going to all the cool parties, strives to keep the roof over your head and food on the table. A lot of this stems from the internet, which in it's own right goes to a certain class. Computers aren't cheap and trying to keep up with them to play games and what-not is pretty damned expensive.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Children destroys lives.

FIFY! I can afford to be greedy and keep up with the Joneseseses because I don't have to worry about the expensive little parasites sucking me dry.

But seriously, I totally agree. Life's too short to spend all of your time worrying about things that just don't matter all that much. Figure out what is important to you and your family and make that your priority. And it's different for everyone. Some people love the "rat race". Working 70 hours a week. Living in the nicest neighborhood. Driving the nicest car. If you love that, go for it and more power to you. But if you hate it, get the hell out of it. Sell your car and get a cheaper one. Move to a smaller house. Cut down to 40 hours a week. Spend more time with your family.

Find the balance between work, leisure, and family (family is NOT leisure if you've ever met mine :p) that leaves you the most content and figure out how to make it work.

 

[Gatorubet]

FIFY! I can afford to be greedy and keep up with the Joneseseses because I don't have to worry about the expensive little parasites sucking me dry.

SMDFF

 

[jimotis4heisman]

FIFY! I can afford to be greedy and keep up with the Joneseseses because I don't have to worry about the expensive little parasites sucking me dry.

But seriously, I totally agree. Life's too short to spend all of your time worrying about things that just don't matter all that much. Figure out what is important to you and your family and make that your priority. And it's different for everyone. Some people love the "rat race". Working 70 hours a week. Living in the nicest neighborhood. Driving the nicest car. If you love that, go for it and more power to you. But if you hate it, get the hell out of it. Sell your car and get a cheaper one. Move to a smaller house. Cut down to 40 hours a week. Spend more time with your family.

Find the balance between work, leisure, and family (family is NOT leisure if you've ever met mine :p) that leaves you the most content and figure out how to make it work.

luckily im a multimillionaire hockey player. hopefully next summer i sign my "lifetime deal" for the bugs and all will end well. i totally know what you guys mean though, this year ill only make 6.5m...

oh wait im not actually nick rash...

 

[MaxBuck]

... I think the need to fit in at school and match the spending habits of the Hilliard elite ...

"Hilliard elite ..." Hmm. What exactly are those spending habits? Springing for "all you can eat shrimp" at Hometown Buffet?

(Sorry -- just a Dublin resident sniping, here. :tongue2: )

I really don't see a conflict. I have lots of nice stuff, but I don't care if the guy next door has more. As my sig suggests, I believe happiness is not a matter of what you aspire to, but whether you're OK with life regardless of whether you acquire (or attain, or achieve) it. If you live your life to "meet a standard" set by others -- whether those others are the Gotrocks Family of South of Lane Upper Arlington, or some ascetic sect living in lower Montana -- then I think you are destined to disappointment. If you live life in order to serve others as best you can, give as much time and talent to help family, friends and the needy, then I think you are destined to be happy.

JMHO.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

for me it is finding a balance and my life. i like work, my family and social things. balancing can be tough though when you are in a situation where you feel you have mulitiple things you enjoy a good moderation of all is the most important thing.

on a personal note for you scoot, my only advice is i just read tressels new book. it addresses similar issues in two or three spots. worth a read. i will say that you and your wife need to do what is best you feel for your family. whatever that might be.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

....good moderation....

Fist time those two words have ever appeared together on BP.