S Vonn Bell (All B1G, All-American, National Champion, Carolina Panthers)

[Bestbuck36]

Vonn Bell.



Hey, it worked when we were recruiting him. Hopefully it's like a mantra that gets him going in this game.

 

[Taosman]

No, what you shouldn't do is declare things based on nothing, like your nickname.

Powell has not been effective at the star but there was no alternative with brown as the second choice.

Bell is also willing to stick his nose in there and is much greener than Powell. The latter is a crucial factor in being the last line of defense.

Why be a douchebag and always make things personal?
Wasn't it "ineffective" Powell who saved the TSUN game? I guess you just forgot.

 

[jwinslow]

Why be a douchebag and always make things personal?

This is a discussion board. People share their opinions and discuss other people's opinions. We do that by analyzing the merits and rationale of those posts. You enjoy grabbing things out of the ether and then get mad when someone calls you on it.

Besides the fact that your declaration didn't pan out, it is bizzare to suggest that you shouldn't fix two weaknesses. Both Brown and Powell were the weak points of one of the worst secondaries in the nation.

This isn't the regular season with a few days to fix things between games. They have a month. They must address this issue unless they want to force the offense to score half a hundred again... and still risk losing.

Wasn't it "ineffective" Powell who saved the TSUN game? I guess you just forgot.

yes, tyvis made a huge play. The secondary also got worked for 59 minutes before that and would have tied it if Hoke didn't gamble.

I don't want to see Tyvis benched. I want to see him at another position, especially if they can find a true star.

 

[Taosman]

This is a discussion board. People share their opinions and discuss other people's opinions. We do that by analyzing the merits and rationale of those posts. You enjoy grabbing things out of the ether and then get mad when someone calls you on it.

Besides the fact that your declaration didn't pan out, it is bizzare to suggest that you shouldn't fix two weaknesses. Both Brown and Powell were the weak points of one of the worst secondaries in the nation.

This isn't the regular season with a few days to fix things between games. They have a month. They must address this issue unless they want to force the offense to score half a hundred again... and still risk losing.
yes, tyvis made a huge play. The secondary also got worked for 59 minutes before that and would have tied it if Hoke didn't gamble.

I don't want to see Tyvis benched. I want to see him at another position, especially if they can find a true star.

I'm all for a respectful discussion of anything. You don't win a "discussion" by using personal attacks, but I guess that's your cover for a weak argument.
To me it makes no common sense to make multiple position changes this late in the year. Powell is a redshirt freshman getting his first season. He was and still is the best option for now. Bell is an SEC level talent we have just been waiting on for the light to come on for him. Moving young guys around makes learning technique even harder to grasp. And technique is a big problem with the young guys. Even some of the older guys.

 

[jwinslow]

I'm all for a respectful discussion of anything. You don't win a "discussion" by using personal attacks, but I guess that's your cover for a weak argument.

you invented a nickname for a player's dominance before he played a meaningful snap.

To me it makes no common sense to make multiple position changes this late in the year. Powell is a redshirt freshman getting his first season. He was and still is the best option for now. Bell is an SEC level talent we have just been waiting on for the light to come on for him. Moving young guys around makes learning technique even harder to grasp. And technique is a big problem with the young guys. Even some of the older guys.

it's the bowl season which is essentially a second season. They have fifteen practices in a month and all are devoted to one team instead of a couple to fix things and then having to switch to game prep.

They are also facing a high octane offense that got smoked by a number of pedestrian passing games. You can hope you will force enough turnovers against Michigan but deploying the same secondary against Clemson is asking for trouble.

Fixing the hybrid position near the LOS is asking for huge trouble when there are enormous breakdowns at the back end, especially brown.

They have tinkered in practice before. Perhaps they did not have enough time to fully swap out two positions in season. Perhaps they were just sick of dreadful coverage and decided to live with the upside of Bell.

Perhaps Luke would like to earn his paycheck and finally show some progress.

Furthermore there is a good chance that they need Bell and Powell to start next year if Bryant doesn't beat the odds in his medical redshirt request. If the change is inevitable and their predecessor was not performing, now is the time to do it.

If we were talking about a week layoff and a playoff game, I may worry about a big change in a small window. We are talking about a month.

 

[C-busBuck]

From the guy who wrote the story and was told by Vonn that he's starting:

Paul Shahen ‏@paulshahen 16h
@TheOSU11 @davebiddle Chris I was told it will be the Star position.

So safe to assume Tyvis is the starting safety? Or Vonn just beat out Tyvis for the star and Brown is still the safety?

I'm hoping Powell will be at safety. Brown becomes toast too often back there.

 

[Taosman]

you invented a nickname for a player's dominance before he played a meaningful snap.
it's the bowl season which is essentially a second season. They have fifteen practices in a month and all are devoted to one team instead of a couple to fix things and then having to switch to game prep.

They are also facing a high octane offense that got smoked by a number of pedestrian passing games. You can hope you will force enough turnovers against Michigan but deploying the same secondary against Clemson is asking for trouble.

Fixing the hybrid position near the LOS is asking for huge trouble when there are enormous breakdowns at the back end, especially brown.

They have tinkered in practice before. Perhaps they did not have enough time to fully swap out two positions in season. Perhaps they were just sick of dreadful coverage and decided to live with the upside of Bell.

Perhaps Luke would like to earn his paycheck and finally show some progress.

Furthermore there is a good chance that they need Bell and Powell to start next year if Bryant doesn't beat the odds in his medical redshirt request. If the change is inevitable and their predecessor was not performing, now is the time to do it.

If we were talking about a week layoff and a playoff game, I may worry about a big change in a small window. We are talking about a month.

“It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers.”
― James Thurber
I's Urban's team and Urban's coaches. It's on him to figure out the big issues.
Bell and Powell starting next year is a given.
During the season you have a hard time fixing personal problems. You pretty much have to play with who you got. A Bowl game gives you more time for player development and to make some changes if needed.
You might think it's worth blowing up the secondary on defense, but that is a big change. You might think "it can't get any worse". But your job isn't on the line. There is so much a stake at this level, it's like big business, you don't blow up your business and start from scratch. Your safest bet is something more "conservative". A "tweak" as Urban has said.
I guess we'll see what a Urban "tweak" really means soon enough. Brown has looked lost back there too much so that looks like a bigger problem than star. Bell can probably handle "star", but can Powell handle safety? I guess that's what it could come down to.

And. Your not giving scUM enough credit for their game plan and execution. That was a hell of a game plan and terrific execution by them. Combs and Powell saved the day.
So I invented a nickname? Big fuckin' deal! Sorry if inventing a nickname hurt your feelings. I'm just a fan.

 

[jwinslow]

During the season you have a hard time fixing personal problems. You pretty much have to play with who you got. A Bowl game gives you more time for player development and to make some changes if needed.
You might think it's worth blowing up the secondary on defense, but that is a big change. You might think "it can't get any worse". But your job isn't on the line. There is so much a stake at this level, it's like big business, you don't blow up your business and start from scratch. Your safest bet is something more "conservative". A "tweak" as Urban has said.

It absolutely can get worse but by now it's pretty clear it isn't going to get better as is and the status quo is dreadful and already threatens Luke's future here.

I don't see Powell to safety as blowing up the secondary, especially when Powell is replacing a position that tends to blow up the secondary already. Personally, I see that as the less aggressive move than Bell to star. I like Bell's long term potential but does he have the size to hold up? He's about 180 soaking wet. Will he be an upgrade in the short term or will he have growing pains like Powell did?

I see this move as putting more potential on the field and seeing if they can grow into the role. The fortunate thing is that the bar is very, very low and they are trading inconsistency for inconsistency, just with more upside.

 

[Taosman]

The 21st rated scoring defense in all of college football isn't horrible. Could get worse. Let's face it, we've been spoiled by Tressel's defenses. But, then there's the offenses........
Fact is the rules favor the offenses right now. That's how we went 24-1.
Problem is, like you have said, Powell has struggled at times, especially in coverage.
That doesn't sound like the best move further back to safety!
Bell to "star" at first blush makes more sense than Powell to safety.

 

[kujirakira]

FWIW, we have seen Bell at Safety in a number of games. I wasn't impressed and could see then why Brown continued to start -- as bad as it was -- I assume Withers decided to go with experience. I wonder how much of this has to do with Withers moving on?
Despite the above I was praying there'd be some "revelation" like occasionally happens during Spring Practices and Bell would make the position his. Then again, as a fan, I just want something "fresh" whereas the coaches are seeing how these guys do in practice day in and day out. But if he's taking Star, it looks more like "next man up" than somebody stepping up like Bosa did. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

[jwinslow]

The 21st rated scoring defense in all of college football isn't "the worse".

Obfuscating their play by quoting a scoring statistic is "the worse"

101st pass defense before MSU. After MSU - yet another career day for an opposing QB that is typically workmanlike.

Given how this happens EVERY year, I shouldn't have to point out yet again that the league's dreadful offenses inflate those numbers. There's an argument to be made for Sparty as the third best offense in the league over IU. They are 62nd in scoring.

04 OSU
19 IU
27 WIS
37 UM (fueled by 103 pts in 2 wks vs IU & the big east defenders in Happy Valley)
45 Neb (OOC fueled)
62 MSU
65 ILL
75 Iowa
86 NW
122 Pur

 

[jwinslow]

FWIW, we have seen Bell at Safety in a number of games. I wasn't impressed and could see then why Brown continued to start -- as bad as it was -- I assume Withers decided to go with experience. I wonder how much of this has to do with Withers moving on?
Despite the above I was praying there'd be some "revelation" like occasionally happens during Spring Practices and Bell would make the position his. Then again, as a fan, I just want something "fresh" whereas the coaches are seeing how these guys do in practice day in and day out. But if he's taking Star, it looks more like "next man up" than somebody stepping up like Bosa did. I hope they prove me wrong.

Excellent question and I saw the same thing you did (though his opportunities were limited). I just choose to view this as a step in the right direction and rationalize the impending breakdowns as growing pains instead of twisting the knife.

 

[Taosman]

Obfuscating their play by quoting a scoring statistic is "the worse"

101st pass defense before MSU. After MSU - yet another career day for an opposing QB that is typically workmanlike.

Given how this happens EVERY year, I shouldn't have to point out yet again that the league's dreadful offenses inflate those numbers. There's an argument to be made for Sparty as the third best offense in the league over IU. They are 62nd in scoring.

04 OSU
19 IU
27 WIS
37 UM (fueled by 103 pts in 2 wks vs IU & the big east defenders in Happy Valley)
45 Neb (OOC fueled)
62 MSU
65 ILL
75 Iowa
86 NW
122 Pur

What' more important? Scoring defense or pass defense? Do I need to remind you that passing yards don't win games?
Obviously, the bottom line has to be scoring defense. Keeping people out of the end zone is way more meaningful than giving up passing yards. Historically, we've seen huge passing games that yield nothing but stats. MSU didn't beat us by throwing the ball. We lost because they had a great run defense. They stopped the run when the game was on the line.

 

[Taosman]

Bell seems to think he'll be at safety? Unless this is just a smokescreen, which it could be. But, I'm gonna guess he plays safety in this game.

http://www.landgrantholyland.com/20...ll-defense-vonn-bell-corey-brown-tyvis-powell

 

[UpNorth_Buckeye]

MSU didn't beat us by throwing the ball. We lost because they had a great run defense. They stopped the run when the game was on the line.

Well really we lost because our coaching staff forgot about Dave.