Jaxbuck;1413427; said:
That stat line was the BA/OBP/SLG for the average NL 3rd baseman for 2008. I assure you they are correct, I would link it but its premium.
EE's line was for the same criteria for the same year. He provides average to slightly above average offense for 3rd base in the NL. Middle infielders have nothing to do with it.
If you want to criticize him because he isn't an elite player yet then I guess that is your perogative.
Its NL average so some may hve been better some were worse. The point is he isn't putting up middle infielder numbers or whatever else. Apples to apples, EE to other NL 3B he is average or slightly above.
I agree that some feel he was overhyped or hasn't lived up to the billing or whatever but thats why I showed the facts of the matter. He's still very young and has been giving us average offense at 3B, I'm saying lets keep the expectations in check and not write off a 26 year old kid just yet.
How Dunn fits now with the Reds isn't the point. Marty rode him like a rented mule the past few years.
The problem I had was that with all the other piles of suck on the team the past decade, specifically the historically bad pitching, Marty has convinced a lot of people the losing was because Dunn struck out too much. Its absolutely asinine.
Dunn was the one player the Reds have had lately that did his job very well yet he was crucified for the K's, not running to his position etc. The focus on LF defense to me is just a joke. I understand the guy wasn't very good but this teams fan base has turned this into a crusade for good LF defense and thats just dumb. Sure its nice to have it if you can but LF isn't a premium defensive position by any stretch of the imagination. It's perfectly fine to stach your slugger in LF or 1B or both if you have 2.
Anyway, moving on from that. EE is better than people give him credit for and still plenty young enough to breakout. I just hope he doesn't get the Dunn treatment once the losing starts. However, when Marty needs a whipping boy I fear EE will be the one.
Unfortunately, I had to rely on the MLB.com package last season, and I got Welch and Grant (just listen to those guys and you'll feel fortunate that you have Marty). So I hadn't heard about Marty laying into Dunn. And of course, as I said, I don't live in the Cincy/Dayton area anymore, so I didn't get the flavor of the city in that way, either. I agree that the Reds had MUCH bigger problems than Dunn's SOs last year. That said, Dunn was making the big money for a small market team, so the bar is going to be much higher.
And I totally disagree that you can just disregard how poorly the left fielder plays the position. I lived in St. Pete for the past 3 baseball seasons, and I can tell you that the #2 improvement that team made in order to get to the playoffs and eventually the World Series was in the field, defensively, and it payed big dividends (#1 would have to be the improved bullpen, BTW). Good defense is a must, IMO. Is a strong left field as important as a strong SS or CF? No, but if you've got a weak spot, it will get exploited and it will hurt you.
And I also think, fair or unfair, the SOs were just a point of contention with Dunn and the fans. He crossed into veteran territory, he was the guy making the big bucks, and I think plate discipline is largely--and for the most part rightly--deemed something you can work at. And frankly, all the smoke about him being a guy who wasn't that driven probably didn't help either. I generally don't buy into that stuff, but when other GMs and scouts start talking about it, well, maybe those perceptions weren't entirely without foundation.
That said, we all know that if the Reds had been winning, Dunn's D and SOs wouldn't have been an issue with the fans. But then again, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
As far as EE goes, I think you're kind of taking what I've been saying out of context. My point was that I wouldn't bank on him being a "break out" player. We'll find out in the next year or two. 26, 27, 28--that's generally the prime of a ball player's career. I'm yet to see anything that leads me to believe he's going to break out. I see an undisciplined hitter that has to get sent back down to Louisville every year b/c he gets in prolonged slumps he can't get out of, who puts up mediocre or (generously) average numbers, and who is, frankly, a below average 3rd baseman. At the $450k or whatever it is he's making now, I can deal with it and even say he's a comparable bargain. At $4 or 5 million, I'd be singing a different tune. In any event, I don't see a break out coming. Maybe you do, and I certainly hope you're right. Anyway, good conversation, Jax. I hope you're right about EE and I hope the Reds can finally return to their former winning ways. I long for the days of Joe Oliver, Chris Sabo, and Jose Rijo.
