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FrancisSoyer;2028939; said:
when did he break free and get caught?
for such an amazing athlete, he really didn't get around the corner. he was tracked down along the sideline a fair bit, but I don't recall a time where he actually broke free past the defense, other than eastern Michigan, which even Joe Bauserman could do.
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dav713
Hall of Fame
RugbyBuck;2028983; said:
Everything in this post is spot on, imo. I worry about Braxton's injury potential. He has a knack for taking unnecessary hits. He has taken several hits outside of the pocket when he could have thrown the ball away. He's just a competitor that never wants to give up on a play. Hopefully he learns that as the QB it is OK to let up a bit.
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BlufftonBuckeye
Hall of Fame
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmcGKC5aFkw"]Terrelle Pryor - 2008 Running - YouTube[/ame]
TP had some pretty nice runs. I think Braxton could be better, but his vision needs to improve, as well as his internal timer. He stood in and took way too many hits yesterday, seems to struggle feeling the rush.
To his credit, really keeps his eyes downfield. But he has to protect himself/ball better.
And I would guess Braxton is way faster than TP. Is that not the case in terms of 40 time etc?
TP had some pretty nice runs. I think Braxton could be better, but his vision needs to improve, as well as his internal timer. He stood in and took way too many hits yesterday, seems to struggle feeling the rush.
To his credit, really keeps his eyes downfield. But he has to protect himself/ball better.
And I would guess Braxton is way faster than TP. Is that not the case in terms of 40 time etc?
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BrutusBobcat
Icon and Entertainer
There's this cool stat one can use to evaluate how effective a runner is. You see, you take the number of total yards they gain, then divide by the number of times they carry the ball.
Braxton Miller (2011) - 4.76ypc
Terrelle Pryor (2008) - 4.54ypc
Terrelle Pryor (2009) - 4.81ypc
Terrelle Pryor (2010) - 5.59ypc
Miller is averaging slightly more per carry than Pryor did as a Freshman, and his stats are probably low from taking more negative yardage plays. It will be interesting to see if his yards per carry average goes up in future seasons as Pryor's did.
Lots of interesting data on Miller here: http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/518/1040928/rushing/situational.html
As we might guess, he is absurdly effective running the ball on third down, to the point where he's pretty much our "third down back".
On a game-by-game basis, Miller has averaged 4.6 to 9.1 yards per carry, except for two games -- Michigan State (-3.0) and Illinois (2.8). His "typical" game seems to be around 4.9 per carry, very similar to what we saw from Pryor.
In his last four games, he's started to break longer individual runs -- 29, then 35, then 44, then 81, something he did not do in his first four (long of 16).
Pryor's career long runs were 38 in 2008, 43 in 2009 and 66 in 2010. Right now, it's pretty clear that Miller already presents as great, if not greater a home run threat right now as a Freshman than did Pryor as a Junior.
Braxton Miller (2011) - 4.76ypc
Terrelle Pryor (2008) - 4.54ypc
Terrelle Pryor (2009) - 4.81ypc
Terrelle Pryor (2010) - 5.59ypc
Miller is averaging slightly more per carry than Pryor did as a Freshman, and his stats are probably low from taking more negative yardage plays. It will be interesting to see if his yards per carry average goes up in future seasons as Pryor's did.
Lots of interesting data on Miller here: http://www.cfbstats.com/2011/player/518/1040928/rushing/situational.html
As we might guess, he is absurdly effective running the ball on third down, to the point where he's pretty much our "third down back".
On a game-by-game basis, Miller has averaged 4.6 to 9.1 yards per carry, except for two games -- Michigan State (-3.0) and Illinois (2.8). His "typical" game seems to be around 4.9 per carry, very similar to what we saw from Pryor.
In his last four games, he's started to break longer individual runs -- 29, then 35, then 44, then 81, something he did not do in his first four (long of 16).
Pryor's career long runs were 38 in 2008, 43 in 2009 and 66 in 2010. Right now, it's pretty clear that Miller already presents as great, if not greater a home run threat right now as a Freshman than did Pryor as a Junior.
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BlufftonBuckeye;2029025; said:
Braxton is much quicker. Terrelle was blistering in a straight line, it just didn't look like it because he looked like he was jogging four yards at a time/step.
that video also epitomizes his running style... always looking to bounce outside to the numbers.
they are opposites in many ways, from passing polish to running styles, athletic gifts / weaknesses, how they eluded tacklers, how they handled contact mentally, how their body was built for contact, etc...
...but their personalities and leadership styles might be the biggest differences.
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7 Heismans
And counting...
jwinslow, I'm trying to determine your definition of avoid "contact like the plague" and "curled up into a ball." Please show me an example, so I can better understand your viewpoint.
From the video titled Terrelle Pryor Runs:
The first clip shows Pryor plow into a Miami defender instead of going out-of-bounds.
The 2nd clip shows him getting tacked by 4 defenders on 3rd and 6 (he tried to get the first down as opposed to curling "up into a ball when tacklers closed in")
0:28 - Pryor went head-on with a defender on 3rd and 9 and eventually got tackled by 3 people.
1:10 - He got tackled by 2 defenders (showed no signs of backing down)
1:26 - showed his ability to break tackles, run for a few yards, and then drive his upper body into a defender, before getting tackled by 2 guys (knocking the helmet off one)
1:53 - eluded a tackle in the backfield on 3rd and 6 and engaged contact with a defender instead of running out-of-bounds
3:07 - he failed to escape from the 6 defenders (didn't run out-of-bounds, but didn't curl up, either)
3:19 - after a long run, he stayed in-bounds to battle a defender instead of simply running out-of-bounds
4:17 -laid out his entire body after getting hit in an effort to convert the 3rd and 5
4:35 - ran right up the middle (so much for southcampus's claim)
4:47 - shows Pryor's desire to get the first down on 3rd and 6 rather than go out-of-bounds short of the 1st down
5:19 - Yes, Pryor left on bad terms, but he also left behind many highlights like this play
6:07 - stayed in-bounds specifically to make contact with a defender
8:00 - another run up the middle. Pryor even got tackled on the big, red O (how'd that get moved to the sideline?) Oh, and he lowered his shoulder before taking the hit
8:42 - placed his shoulder into a defender before going out-of-bounds
9:24 - knew he was about to get hit, but engaged the defender anyway (instead of just going out-of-bounds)
Nothing in this video indicated to me that Pryor avoided contact. In fact, based on the video, Pryor sometimes went out of his way to engage in contact.
Watch the video and you will (should) see?
You said before that Pryor never ran up the middle.
Are you really this bad at the Internet?
Pryor had many big time runs in every year that he played at tOSU. He wasn't considered a Heisman contender strictly based on his passing ability.
Those who argue that Miller is a significantly better runner than Pryor, please enlighten me. I ask you to tell me how many times better is Miller than Pryor? 2x? 4x? 10x? 73.6x? 100x?
While I contend that their difference in running ability is negligible (because they're both equally outstanding), Miller has an exponentially better attitude - something that cannot necessarily be taught/learned. Miller's attitude may lead to greatness above and beyond any achievement obtained in the prior era.
From the video titled Terrelle Pryor Runs:
The first clip shows Pryor plow into a Miami defender instead of going out-of-bounds.
The 2nd clip shows him getting tacked by 4 defenders on 3rd and 6 (he tried to get the first down as opposed to curling "up into a ball when tacklers closed in")
0:28 - Pryor went head-on with a defender on 3rd and 9 and eventually got tackled by 3 people.
1:10 - He got tackled by 2 defenders (showed no signs of backing down)
1:26 - showed his ability to break tackles, run for a few yards, and then drive his upper body into a defender, before getting tackled by 2 guys (knocking the helmet off one)
1:53 - eluded a tackle in the backfield on 3rd and 6 and engaged contact with a defender instead of running out-of-bounds
3:07 - he failed to escape from the 6 defenders (didn't run out-of-bounds, but didn't curl up, either)
3:19 - after a long run, he stayed in-bounds to battle a defender instead of simply running out-of-bounds
4:17 -laid out his entire body after getting hit in an effort to convert the 3rd and 5
4:35 - ran right up the middle (so much for southcampus's claim)
4:47 - shows Pryor's desire to get the first down on 3rd and 6 rather than go out-of-bounds short of the 1st down
5:19 - Yes, Pryor left on bad terms, but he also left behind many highlights like this play
6:07 - stayed in-bounds specifically to make contact with a defender
8:00 - another run up the middle. Pryor even got tackled on the big, red O (how'd that get moved to the sideline?) Oh, and he lowered his shoulder before taking the hit
8:42 - placed his shoulder into a defender before going out-of-bounds
9:24 - knew he was about to get hit, but engaged the defender anyway (instead of just going out-of-bounds)
Nothing in this video indicated to me that Pryor avoided contact. In fact, based on the video, Pryor sometimes went out of his way to engage in contact.
jwinslow;2029018; said:
Watch the video and you will (should) see?
southcampus;2028932; said:
You said before that Pryor never ran up the middle.
southcampus;2028932; said:
Are you really this bad at the Internet?
southcampus;2028932; said:
Pryor had many big time runs in every year that he played at tOSU. He wasn't considered a Heisman contender strictly based on his passing ability.
Those who argue that Miller is a significantly better runner than Pryor, please enlighten me. I ask you to tell me how many times better is Miller than Pryor? 2x? 4x? 10x? 73.6x? 100x?
While I contend that their difference in running ability is negligible (because they're both equally outstanding), Miller has an exponentially better attitude - something that cannot necessarily be taught/learned. Miller's attitude may lead to greatness above and beyond any achievement obtained in the prior era.
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BrutusBobcat
Icon and Entertainer
7 Heismans;2029060; said:
Read my stats post. Miller breaks more big runs and averages more per carry than Pryor did at the same point in his career. Freshman year vs. Freshman year, it's pretty clear cut that Miller is more effective (edit: As a ball carrier. The passing stats are very lopsided towards Pryor).
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Buckeye doc
Hall of Fame
Pryor was really fast but as others have pointed out he was tall and a long strider so he never looked like he was moving that fast. I think that's partly why he had great success running. Opposing defenses took poor angles because they didn't recognize his speed, either. (that and his Beaniesque stiffarm)
As someone said last week (I believe), Braxton's moves have moves. Some of the jukes he makes are just jaw-dropping. Like the one on the TD run in the 3rd quarter against the hosers. I don't have a link, but when he makes a cut on that run the defender just falls over because he was leaning the other way (iirc). So much fun to watch.
As someone said last week (I believe), Braxton's moves have moves. Some of the jukes he makes are just jaw-dropping. Like the one on the TD run in the 3rd quarter against the hosers. I don't have a link, but when he makes a cut on that run the defender just falls over because he was leaning the other way (iirc). So much fun to watch.
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MaxBuck
SoCal, Baby!
Since this whole thread has devolved into a "Braxton v. Terrelle" debate, it should be pointed out that Pryor's freshman passing numbers were so far beyond Miller's that comparison would be absurd. This from a player about whom so many "fans" said, "He's not a QB, he's an athlete."
Pryor Freshman Stats
Year School Conf Class Pos Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2008 Ohio State Big Ten FR QB 100 165 60.6 1311 7.9 8.3 12 4 146.5
Pryor Freshman Stats
Year School Conf Class Pos Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2008 Ohio State Big Ten FR QB 100 165 60.6 1311 7.9 8.3 12 4 146.5
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7 Heismans
And counting...
BrutusBobcat;2029066; said:
You didn't answer my question. So once again...
"I ask you to tell me how many times better is Miller than Pryor? 2x? 4x? 10x? 73.6x? 100x?"
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