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- Thread starter ohiobuck94
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- heisman quarterback troy smith
JonathanXC said:
Did you watch the game? Zwick missed several wide open guys...the one I remember the most was the one were Ginn was streaking over the middle in full stride about two yards ahead of his man and there was absolutely no one else in the middle of the field. If Zwick hits him in stride, Ginn is gone. Unfortunately, he didn't even throw it close enough for Ginn to touch it, let alone catch it. It looked like quail season out there. Zwick averaged 4 yards per pass attempt...not per completion, but per attempt. That is extremely poor...in fact, it's flat out pathetic. Zwick was sacked five times, with two or three of them because of his weird habit of running towards the rushers instead of away from them and throwing the ball away. The OL played OK...not great but not bad. Ross was Ross, aside from one power run up the middle where he actually hit the hole and then proceeded to drag a tackler three yards for a eight or nine yard gain. Pittman looked significantly better than Ross, hopefully he'll see at least half the carries from here out.
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OhioStadium
Newbie
Maagnum, I completely agree with you, it is time for T. Smith - I understand JT wants Zwick to get experience but we need some W's now. Believe me everyone notices Zwick's bad ball - he needs to watch from the sideline for a while. The Roundtable had Mike Tomcsack on and he side it would do Zwick some good to gather himself a little bit and watch - the competition should motivate him.
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
MililaniBuckeye,
So are you saying that its more Zwick now than the Offensive line. I am not disputing your points about Justin and I agree totally that he has to mature a hell of alot more than he has, and put together at least one good sustaining drive to start impressing me. Right now he looks terrible. In fact he give me stomach aches when he missed all those shorts route that were wide open this past saturday. He is locking on at times and not reading well on others.
I kept thinking "LOOK HE'S WIDE OPEN !!" .. I am in the stands why don't you see that !!!
I began the season saying that Zwick will have to mature fast and make the defenses pay for stacking the box, and that we'd have a rough road until this new QB does that. I still think its the O-line as well as Zwick's maturity hand in hand now. Until they both mature its going to be hard to watch.
I am done defending the OC's though ... after four years.
So are you saying that its more Zwick now than the Offensive line. I am not disputing your points about Justin and I agree totally that he has to mature a hell of alot more than he has, and put together at least one good sustaining drive to start impressing me. Right now he looks terrible. In fact he give me stomach aches when he missed all those shorts route that were wide open this past saturday. He is locking on at times and not reading well on others.
I kept thinking "LOOK HE'S WIDE OPEN !!" .. I am in the stands why don't you see that !!!
I began the season saying that Zwick will have to mature fast and make the defenses pay for stacking the box, and that we'd have a rough road until this new QB does that. I still think its the O-line as well as Zwick's maturity hand in hand now. Until they both mature its going to be hard to watch.
I am done defending the OC's though ... after four years.
Great point. No matter what or who ends up on starting. We all want OSU to win. Whomever starts down the road ya gotta wish them the best.Oh8ch said:
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bukIpower
Head Coach
Zwick needs to be stood aside and while Troy gets some snaps. If Smith doens't win us some balls games the least that will happen is Zwick will be fired up to prove he deserves Number 1 spot. Right now I think Troy should get a start. The season looks like a lost cause as of right now, and I maybe with the new demension Smith brings with his feet would be just what we need. However, this is Tressel's offense so we'll just have to wait and see.
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maagnum
Newbie
Everyone on here makes valid points and i respect the opinions, but there is a simple issue here. Everyone talks about how bad our o-line is and a lack of running game, which is precisely why u need to give smith a chance. he has the raw athleticism u dream of and he has the ability to improvise with his legs when the o-line breaks down(which it has in abundance this year)..this would also take a little pressure off of the running game and make defenses think twice about stacking the box...and oh yeah he throws a helluva nice ball...bottom line is i'ma die hard bucks fan and i want to see them succeed. to me Zwick is way behind the 8 ball for where he should be at this time.
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Airspace
Senior
What I don't understand is why Zwick has not been sat down for a series or two and using it for instruction. I am not saying start Smith or even see significant playing time but for Zwick to see the game from the sidelines. Some times you casn see more from the sidelines than being in the game. Being in the game everything is up close and fast. From the sidelines you can see the total picture of what the defense is doing and how and what may counter it.
If Smith is able to peform great but I believe it would help Zwick become a better quarterback. Reviewing game film is great but its not going to help you in the current game only the next. Sitting for a few series can only help in the progression if used for instruction.
If Smith is able to peform great but I believe it would help Zwick become a better quarterback. Reviewing game film is great but its not going to help you in the current game only the next. Sitting for a few series can only help in the progression if used for instruction.
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I have always thought Zwick will be the future and still will be. But sometimes the future needs to take a step back before moving forward. What should happen is Zwick starts against Iowa and if he plays like he has the past 3 games pull him in the 2nd quarter and tell him to take a break and just watch. Then tell Smith we are playing you the full quarter. Show us why you should finish the 2nd half.
Sometimes the best thing for a QB is to watch. The first 2 years don't count because he was not in the game before to compare with. Now that he has played, sometimes the best thing is to sit down and watch for a little bit. Catch his breathe and move forward.
The only problem is we all know Tressel won't do this.
Sometimes the best thing for a QB is to watch. The first 2 years don't count because he was not in the game before to compare with. Now that he has played, sometimes the best thing is to sit down and watch for a little bit. Catch his breathe and move forward.
The only problem is we all know Tressel won't do this.
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BrutusBobcat
Icon and Entertainer
It's interesting to note that Zwick looked much better in the games where Smith also played, and was also slated to get reps, than he did in the games where Smith did not get reps. Maybe Tressel declared the QB competition as being over a bit too early? I'll point out that Ross looked better than he has all season this past Saturday (despite the fact that we ran what? four times?) while splitting carries with Pittman. Humans push themselves due to competition. Either way, the season is hosed. Might as well do the Germaine/Stanley thing until one of them takes the job permanently.
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
I don't know what the answer is towards the QB situation but it still nags at me that IF Troy is so great, why has he not been given the nod by Coach Tressel.
I still think in the long Run when the Offensive line and in tandem, whatever QB(Justin Zwick IMO), matures and executes, then this will not be a discussion at all. Haha MililaniBuckeye I remember discussing this with you about Justin Zwick awhile back. Either QB needs to mature and execute better and then that O-line needs to follow. Its going to be a bumpy ride ... Buckle Up !!
I still think in the long Run when the Offensive line and in tandem, whatever QB(Justin Zwick IMO), matures and executes, then this will not be a discussion at all. Haha MililaniBuckeye I remember discussing this with you about Justin Zwick awhile back. Either QB needs to mature and execute better and then that O-line needs to follow. Its going to be a bumpy ride ... Buckle Up !!
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Saw31
High Seas Rogue
Wow. This is the first decent thread I've seen on this topic. It's the level of class that the posters on this site have that makes it enjoyable, compared to other unnamed forums. Good discussion without saying "he sux, no he sux".
The fact is neither of them suck. They are elite athletes that would run circles around me, and just about everyone else on this board. Both of these kids need our support, not our booing. If someday, they are playing on sundays, boo all you want. Those guys get a paycheck to be booed.
With that out of the way...
Being from Youngstown and knowing a few people who have played for Tressel at YSU, I tend to lean towards the opinion that Smith must not be showing the coaches what he needs to in practice, because I can not honestly believe any coach would not play the people that gives them the best chance to win. Tressel is above all else, a fair man, from what I know of him. Does Smith command the respect of his teammates? Does he work as hard as everyone else? How's his attitude? I can't answer any of these questions and imply nothing by asking them, but these are questions that are relevant in any team sport. However, at this point, as an outsider not knowing what goes on in practice, I think maybe Smith should get some playing time. I thought, after Zwick turned the ankle and dislocated his fingers, that would have been a good time to switch. JT could always say, "I didn't yank you (to Zwick), you were hurt. Let's get Troy out there and get you healthy." (No bruised egos to a young, developing player) I thought that may have been a lost opportunity to get Smith out there without stoking the fires of a QB controversy. The last thing this team needs is a QB controversy. First of all, placing blame on the QB position for the Buckeye's problems would be overstretching quite a bit. We have problems all over the place, most of which can be contributed directly to youth. Secondly, I would hate to think that this team would become divided into Zwick and Smith camps. That only distracts from their own improvement. Thirdly, this team is going to need Smith at some point this season. Zwick is going to take a beating until the O-line gets better with experience, and he learns to protect himself by sending the ball into C deck. Fourthly, without any semblence of a running game, I'm afraid either one of our young QB's are just getting thrown to the sharks. They can't be expected to carry the whole offense. Good, experienced QB's shouldn't be expected to carry the entire offense, even in the sunday league.
In conclusion, I would hope Buckeye nation starts to realize that this is what college football is all about. We can't go out and pick up a veteran free agent to add leadership. We can't say that guy sucks, trade him to BYU for a scholarship. We have what we have. We must be patient. Everyone needs to dust off the 2003 Fiesta Bowl NC game DVD. Pop it in and see how many plays were made by players who lost 5 games the year before. Players who were beaten and humiliated, but learned and grew from it. And if we continue to struggle, let's not send a once in a lifetime talent like Mike Nugent out with memories of a fan base who turned against their own team.
:osu:
The fact is neither of them suck. They are elite athletes that would run circles around me, and just about everyone else on this board. Both of these kids need our support, not our booing. If someday, they are playing on sundays, boo all you want. Those guys get a paycheck to be booed.
With that out of the way...
Being from Youngstown and knowing a few people who have played for Tressel at YSU, I tend to lean towards the opinion that Smith must not be showing the coaches what he needs to in practice, because I can not honestly believe any coach would not play the people that gives them the best chance to win. Tressel is above all else, a fair man, from what I know of him. Does Smith command the respect of his teammates? Does he work as hard as everyone else? How's his attitude? I can't answer any of these questions and imply nothing by asking them, but these are questions that are relevant in any team sport. However, at this point, as an outsider not knowing what goes on in practice, I think maybe Smith should get some playing time. I thought, after Zwick turned the ankle and dislocated his fingers, that would have been a good time to switch. JT could always say, "I didn't yank you (to Zwick), you were hurt. Let's get Troy out there and get you healthy." (No bruised egos to a young, developing player) I thought that may have been a lost opportunity to get Smith out there without stoking the fires of a QB controversy. The last thing this team needs is a QB controversy. First of all, placing blame on the QB position for the Buckeye's problems would be overstretching quite a bit. We have problems all over the place, most of which can be contributed directly to youth. Secondly, I would hate to think that this team would become divided into Zwick and Smith camps. That only distracts from their own improvement. Thirdly, this team is going to need Smith at some point this season. Zwick is going to take a beating until the O-line gets better with experience, and he learns to protect himself by sending the ball into C deck. Fourthly, without any semblence of a running game, I'm afraid either one of our young QB's are just getting thrown to the sharks. They can't be expected to carry the whole offense. Good, experienced QB's shouldn't be expected to carry the entire offense, even in the sunday league.
In conclusion, I would hope Buckeye nation starts to realize that this is what college football is all about. We can't go out and pick up a veteran free agent to add leadership. We can't say that guy sucks, trade him to BYU for a scholarship. We have what we have. We must be patient. Everyone needs to dust off the 2003 Fiesta Bowl NC game DVD. Pop it in and see how many plays were made by players who lost 5 games the year before. Players who were beaten and humiliated, but learned and grew from it. And if we continue to struggle, let's not send a once in a lifetime talent like Mike Nugent out with memories of a fan base who turned against their own team.
:osu:
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Sdgobucks
Pig on a wing
I agree, the season is hosed play both QBs and put on a show. Play both of them at the same time if you want (talk about trick plays), just don't give us the same thing every week that doesn't work. Someone said the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result. Although I will still say the passing problem isn't Zwick or the QBs, it is JT and his "throw it away from the DB" and not "throw it too the receiver" philosophy. I would still like to see all the guys get a couple shots in a game though, why not we have nothing to lose.BrutusBobcat said:
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
One of the best and most poignant post on this thread or any !!! These kids are only 18-21 and the Buckeyes need our support now more than ever. I heard fans booing this saturday and I totally understand the frustrations but that helps nobody at all on the team !!!Oh8ch said:
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