NYbuckeye00
Banned
Can we please give someone else a shot at making plays. ie SMITH. God do i miss MoC
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- Thread starter BuckNutty
- Start date
I almost started a thread about stickin with Zwick because I thought it was the best decision JT made Saturday night.
For starters, any statements about doing better with Smith or Boeckman are unadulterated wishful thinking. There is zero evidence that either is a better performer and the only thing we know for sure about either is that they have three games less experience. In a game that went to OT rolling the dice to see what might happen would have been foolish.
Replace Zwick Saturday and you have a QB who 1) is looking over his shoulder and 2) has missed reps under pressure that will only make him better.
The stories of QBs who stunk it up early are legion. Schlichter was intercepted four times in his first game (I know, he was a true Frosh). Brock Berlin got booed off the field last year, but is now an effectifve QB for the #4 team in the country. What little success ND is having this season has a lot to do with the pain Brady Quinn went through last year. Thanks goodness Jay Davis was having the same problmes for NC St - a team that knows how to run a wide open offense.
Zwick has a lot to learn. D'Andrea was MIA for two seasons, but this Spring talked about things were 'slowing down' for him. Now look at his contributions. Zwick needs to see things in the heat of battle and eventually he will start to see them in a very different light. I think that started to happen a bit in the fourth quarter Saturday.
I don't think his accuracy is that bad - especially when throwing to Holmes. (And if inaccuracy varies with the receiver it might have something to do with the receiver.) He is limited on where he can comfortably throw the ball just yet (i.e. ability to read the D) and and he has an uncanny ability to evade his own blockers in the pocket - but can anyone honestly picture his continuing to do that all season? He is going through a very normal development period for a QB.
If Troy Smith or Todd Boeckman can hand the ball off to Pittman or Ross in a way that will get them over 3 YPC then they can have an impact on the offense. But barring that don't dump the problems with the O on Zwick.
For starters, any statements about doing better with Smith or Boeckman are unadulterated wishful thinking. There is zero evidence that either is a better performer and the only thing we know for sure about either is that they have three games less experience. In a game that went to OT rolling the dice to see what might happen would have been foolish.
Replace Zwick Saturday and you have a QB who 1) is looking over his shoulder and 2) has missed reps under pressure that will only make him better.
The stories of QBs who stunk it up early are legion. Schlichter was intercepted four times in his first game (I know, he was a true Frosh). Brock Berlin got booed off the field last year, but is now an effectifve QB for the #4 team in the country. What little success ND is having this season has a lot to do with the pain Brady Quinn went through last year. Thanks goodness Jay Davis was having the same problmes for NC St - a team that knows how to run a wide open offense.
Zwick has a lot to learn. D'Andrea was MIA for two seasons, but this Spring talked about things were 'slowing down' for him. Now look at his contributions. Zwick needs to see things in the heat of battle and eventually he will start to see them in a very different light. I think that started to happen a bit in the fourth quarter Saturday.
I don't think his accuracy is that bad - especially when throwing to Holmes. (And if inaccuracy varies with the receiver it might have something to do with the receiver.) He is limited on where he can comfortably throw the ball just yet (i.e. ability to read the D) and and he has an uncanny ability to evade his own blockers in the pocket - but can anyone honestly picture his continuing to do that all season? He is going through a very normal development period for a QB.
If Troy Smith or Todd Boeckman can hand the ball off to Pittman or Ross in a way that will get them over 3 YPC then they can have an impact on the offense. But barring that don't dump the problems with the O on Zwick.
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StoRMinBrutus
Great 2 B A Buckeyes !!!
On what basis do you have to make that remark ? How do you know Troy Smith will do any better ?? Have you seen him in any of the practices ? Does he make better decisions than Justin does ? If he did why the heck has Coach Tressel picked Justin Zwick to be the starter. Wouldn't you assume there is a reason ?? Maybe Troy isn't making the right decisions and throws all the time while on the run, which is so hard to do and everyone knows that makes you more prone to throwing interceptions and/or bad passes. Maybe Troy uses his running skills more to run the ball to get 5 yards when there is an open receiver 15 yeards down the feild that he has not seen cuz he tucked his head and ran. See these are assumptions against Troy that I can't seriously back because they are just that .... assumptions, but obviously Coach Tressel thinks he's not making all the right decisions or he would of started him right.
I'd be interested to know if you've actually have been to a practice and seen how great Troy is lighting them up and making all the right decisions and reducing errors . If you have then my apologies .. your right !!
I hope this doesn't seem like I am totally objecting to your opinions but I just don't see how you can come up with that statement when there isn't much evidence to back it. I would be interested to know why you think Troy could do so much better ?? He does have a great arm when he plants his feet and he also is an amazing athlete. Who knows if I am wrong and Troy come out and knocks em dead and becomes a Heisman candidate, I'd be so happy to state that I was wrong.
I'd be interested to know if you've actually have been to a practice and seen how great Troy is lighting them up and making all the right decisions and reducing errors . If you have then my apologies .. your right !!
I hope this doesn't seem like I am totally objecting to your opinions but I just don't see how you can come up with that statement when there isn't much evidence to back it. I would be interested to know why you think Troy could do so much better ?? He does have a great arm when he plants his feet and he also is an amazing athlete. Who knows if I am wrong and Troy come out and knocks em dead and becomes a Heisman candidate, I'd be so happy to state that I was wrong.
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jimotis4heisman
Banned
i liked what i saw in a flash for zwick "But the Buckeyes finally got it right on their third try. Moving 69 yards in just five plays and 90 seconds, Zwick rushed for 18 yards, then had completions of 11 yards and 19 yards before finding Holmes deep in the end zone for the 21-yard score to force overtime."
granted that pick he threw was not good, he tried to make a play, how come no one is talkin about the line play. i was at the game in the endzone and our line was blown off the ball on both sides of the ball, the game is won or lost in the trenches, this weekend we lost it.
granted that pick he threw was not good, he tried to make a play, how come no one is talkin about the line play. i was at the game in the endzone and our line was blown off the ball on both sides of the ball, the game is won or lost in the trenches, this weekend we lost it.
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SanClementeBuck
Heisman
Ant: I would never unload on you for expressing your opinion about who should get the shot at Buckeye qb. Time may prove you correct.
I would remark that JT prefers JZ over TS. This may change, but I think it would take an injury to Zwick or continued downtrends in his stats. Don't think that will happen. Zwick remains a qb in training, as does our OL. And, it looks like our vaunted D needs immediate schooling in how to handle varied screens. For sure, the Bucks will see more of 'em.
Someone mentioned Schlichter had 4 intercepts in 1st game against PennSt; actually it was 5.
I admire your support for Smith...an outstanding athlete. I think the difference between Smith and Zwick at this point, may be decision making judgement. At least that is what I read between the lines from JT.
As pundits are prone to say, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
I think the Bucks will respond to Saturday's loss...at least I sure hope they do. And this response will show us the heart of this year's TEAM, or lack thereof. It will all revolve around Zwick at QB.
I would remark that JT prefers JZ over TS. This may change, but I think it would take an injury to Zwick or continued downtrends in his stats. Don't think that will happen. Zwick remains a qb in training, as does our OL. And, it looks like our vaunted D needs immediate schooling in how to handle varied screens. For sure, the Bucks will see more of 'em.
Someone mentioned Schlichter had 4 intercepts in 1st game against PennSt; actually it was 5.
I admire your support for Smith...an outstanding athlete. I think the difference between Smith and Zwick at this point, may be decision making judgement. At least that is what I read between the lines from JT.
As pundits are prone to say, "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."
I think the Bucks will respond to Saturday's loss...at least I sure hope they do. And this response will show us the heart of this year's TEAM, or lack thereof. It will all revolve around Zwick at QB.
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DiHard
Guest
also agree....great post oh8ch....look, ohio state has its quarterback for the next three years in zwick....get used to it because its not going to change...
a quarterback is not guaranteed playing time becuase he has a great shuttle time and participates in practice.....there is so much more to being a quarterback than that....
a quarterback is not guaranteed playing time becuase he has a great shuttle time and participates in practice.....there is so much more to being a quarterback than that....
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Zwick will end up being much better than, say Bellisari, because he has better coaching than Bellisari. He also makes mistakes, but they aren't the "try and make the Madden 2005 play" mistakes that Bellisari tended to make. I agree that he is the QB until he gets hurt or graduates. I don't think he'll go down as the greatest Buckeye QB ever, but he has plenty of talent and work ethic to be way above average by the time he's gone.
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Hey- I don't want to hack on Bels... Bygones after all.
But that kid just kept doing the same stupid crap over and over and over... He may not have had coaching that was as good... but I don't think he took coaching all that well either... but Bellisari used to just make the simplest freaking mistakes... one of my favorites was that he insisted on taking 5 or 7 step drops on every single play...even if the play call was for a quick hitter.. so if he had to throw quickly, he'd just chuck up a duck because he was running backwards when he threw.
But that kid just kept doing the same stupid crap over and over and over... He may not have had coaching that was as good... but I don't think he took coaching all that well either... but Bellisari used to just make the simplest freaking mistakes... one of my favorites was that he insisted on taking 5 or 7 step drops on every single play...even if the play call was for a quick hitter.. so if he had to throw quickly, he'd just chuck up a duck because he was running backwards when he threw.
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BuckeyeInTheBoro
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I don't see how anyone who knows anything about football (or has ever watched a game) could say that Zwick resembles Bellisari (or however you spell his name).
Steve knew two plays: 1) run 2) close your eyes and throw deep
Justin has looked good throwing across the middle, throwing to the TE (not Justin's fault if it's dropped), throwing to every available back and receiver on short, medium and long routes and occasionally running with the ball.
He's thrown a few picks... some of which never should have been thrown, but a guy named Favre still does that and he's OK. I'm not saying Justin is the next Favre or anything, just illustrating that throwing a few picks is the price you pay for throwing at all.
His fumbling kinda sucks... I hope he can work on that, but otherwise I think he's been better than I expected in his first 4 games. I see changes to what JZ is doing each week which means he's learning from game experience and his coaches. You cannot just be GIVEN experience... he's earning it now.
Here's my take on JT's advice to JZ before each game:
Game 1) Go out and let's see what you can do
Game 2) Don't be afraid to look deep... we can open up a running game if you can complete a couple of long balls.
Game 3) Just because you can beat someone deep doesn't mean you have to try every play. Remember you have teammates... let them win the game for you. It's OK to go deep when it's open, but if it's risky at all just throw it away. Let your teammates win the game and you don't lose it for them.
Game 4) When I said "throw it away" I assumed you would look to run first if no one was open. Look through your progressions first, don't take stupid risks, and don't take a sack if you can run or throw it away.
Seems to me he's getting smarter every game. Steve NEVER got smarter at OSU. He would try not to run and only throw deep or he would try not to throw deep and only run.
Steve knew two plays: 1) run 2) close your eyes and throw deep
Justin has looked good throwing across the middle, throwing to the TE (not Justin's fault if it's dropped), throwing to every available back and receiver on short, medium and long routes and occasionally running with the ball.
He's thrown a few picks... some of which never should have been thrown, but a guy named Favre still does that and he's OK. I'm not saying Justin is the next Favre or anything, just illustrating that throwing a few picks is the price you pay for throwing at all.
His fumbling kinda sucks... I hope he can work on that, but otherwise I think he's been better than I expected in his first 4 games. I see changes to what JZ is doing each week which means he's learning from game experience and his coaches. You cannot just be GIVEN experience... he's earning it now.
Here's my take on JT's advice to JZ before each game:
Game 1) Go out and let's see what you can do
Game 2) Don't be afraid to look deep... we can open up a running game if you can complete a couple of long balls.
Game 3) Just because you can beat someone deep doesn't mean you have to try every play. Remember you have teammates... let them win the game for you. It's OK to go deep when it's open, but if it's risky at all just throw it away. Let your teammates win the game and you don't lose it for them.
Game 4) When I said "throw it away" I assumed you would look to run first if no one was open. Look through your progressions first, don't take stupid risks, and don't take a sack if you can run or throw it away.
Seems to me he's getting smarter every game. Steve NEVER got smarter at OSU. He would try not to run and only throw deep or he would try not to throw deep and only run.
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antosu
Senior
storminbrutis,
I've been to plenty of practices. Maybe you should ask me before you make those statements.
Diehard,
What in the world does "shuttle time" have to do with this ? You guy's act like thats all Smith can do is run. Hello, he has a beast of an arm. The only passes that I've seen Zwick throw better than Smith is the short to 15 yard outs. I think you guy's will be very surprised if you see Smith get more throwing opportunities.
that being said, i'm not trying to vote Smith in. I'm just saying that something needs to be done. It can be an improved Zwick or Todd Boeckman for all I care. Just give me better qb play !
"To win while playing the conservative game we play, you need a mistake free qb and an effective runningback". Zwick and Ross haven't done this.
Did anyone see how the NW defense was blitzing on pass plays ? They left the oline wide open in the middle and qb rushing yards could of stacked up all night. Someone must have told Zwick because he ate em up in the 4th. But if the coaches were paying attention, they could of played Smith on this occaision because NW's defense was a sitting duck for a running qb. Smith rushes for over 100 yards and opens up the passing game, and we win.
Sorry ! Zwick should start but Smith would have been the right call saturday.
I've been to plenty of practices. Maybe you should ask me before you make those statements.
Diehard,
What in the world does "shuttle time" have to do with this ? You guy's act like thats all Smith can do is run. Hello, he has a beast of an arm. The only passes that I've seen Zwick throw better than Smith is the short to 15 yard outs. I think you guy's will be very surprised if you see Smith get more throwing opportunities.
that being said, i'm not trying to vote Smith in. I'm just saying that something needs to be done. It can be an improved Zwick or Todd Boeckman for all I care. Just give me better qb play !
"To win while playing the conservative game we play, you need a mistake free qb and an effective runningback". Zwick and Ross haven't done this.
Did anyone see how the NW defense was blitzing on pass plays ? They left the oline wide open in the middle and qb rushing yards could of stacked up all night. Someone must have told Zwick because he ate em up in the 4th. But if the coaches were paying attention, they could of played Smith on this occaision because NW's defense was a sitting duck for a running qb. Smith rushes for over 100 yards and opens up the passing game, and we win.
Sorry ! Zwick should start but Smith would have been the right call saturday.
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BuckeyeInTheBoro
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OR... he makes one poor decision and we lose without getting a shot at OT. I haven't seen him play outside of the games, but I have to think Tressel likes Zwick's decision making ability (in practice) better than Smith's or Smith would be starting.antosu said:
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FKAGobucks877
The Most Power-Drunk
I hate this damn subject, but I have to admit, I haven't seen a whole lot of "excellent decision making ability" out of Zwick so far. I don't think a change is in order, but for my own personal well-being, I would like to see Smith in a game. I don't think that Saturday was the best time for that, but if tOSU can actually go up by a couple scores against somebody (maybe Indiana?), I would like to see Smith in extended game action. By the way, for those of you who are talking about the arm and accuracy, Smith has always been said to have the stronger arm, and if you pay attention to such things, Smith was the third string QB over Zwick their Frosh year. Smith has a cannon, and from what I've seen in the spring games, and against Marshall (I think, maybe it was UC) where he threw that TD pass, he's pretty accurate as well. I fully trust Tressel to make the right decision, but I don't think Smith would do a worse job than Zwick. But I also don't think he would do any better.
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I wouldn't mind seeing Smith get some PT when we have a comfortable lead, but who knows when that's going to happen this year. I've been told some "inside" info on Smith, and that it involves off-field disciplinary problems and some shortcomings in absorbing game film. We should all know by now that there are a lot more dynamics happening than what the public is aware of.
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