QB Justin Zwick (B1G Champion, National Champion)

[MililaniBuckeye]

The year we missed the 'big three' of Crable, Burgess, and Quinn definitely stood out in my eyes.

Neither of those three have proved to be world-beaters. Granted, Quinn is starting at ND, but he hasn't been all that great. Crable and Burgess have been primarily special-teams players, although Burgess had significant PT in The Game. I don't think we missed out at all with them. Besides, Quinn has been an ND fan ever since he watched college football, so there was nothing that any school could do to get him away from South Bend. Burgess had those "girl problems" with Clarett, so that played as much a factor as anything in his going to Michigan. The only one you could really say we "lost" was Crable, and out of the three, he's played the least.

 

[Onebuckfan]

think Tressel is in the PATRIOT Mode

Cooper and Conley rcruited talent first over people. Consequently, some left early, some transferred and some got in trouble. I think JT is looking at the quality of the person as well as football talent. This being said this is why he won't over offer, he treats recruits the same way he wants to be treated.He wants to create an atmosphere like the Patriots, a team full of players not prima donnas(Maurice Claretts) Lets give him a chance to make it work.

 

[souL]

By the way... love this argument. Great points souL.

Well, you need to take into account who's making them. :)

I will add this to the fire. Could this be the convergence of all the exterior movements coming together at one time to really cloud what is really happening? Mainly being the academic arm of Ohio State is trying to force Tressel down a certain road. The NY Times article on Clarett getting special treatment might have hurried this course. The confusion of last year (losing M. Williams & DaJuan Morgan) might add to this mix. Then throw in the ESPN allegations and you have this weird takeoff point. Where do things go from here?

The Morgan thing is actually one of the most disappointing things I've seen in the Tressel era I think, that and the Taz thing. I think most of us were thuroughly disappointed in how DuJuan got treated... and that I think showed a side of the staff I didn't want to see.

This new concentrated effort might be the results of this. Of course there still might be tweeking to be done of perfecting the system. Then throw in a 1st year Recruiting Coordinator and I am happy with a Top 10 Recruiting class. Now next year... we better do better!

I love the class. I just wanted it to be better, I thought it should have been better. I thought we REALLY missed the boat on Taz. Then we lost Bemoll as well. I think we ended up two OL short. Gwaltney would have just been butter.

Now to one of your points... You mention the lack of OOS Running Backs. When you recruit a Freshman one year that becomes the talk of the Heisman... They aren't leaving for another 3 years. Kinda puts a damper on incoming OOS RBs coming in. Perfect example, Chris Wells was considered a scUM lean due to family and mentioned Oklahoma as a possible place to go. But look at those 2 schools. They just had very successful Freshman running backs, an OOS recruit looks at things from afar and see no playing time til they are Juniors... kinda stops them cold. So the end result? Chris Wells becomes a Buckeye. Not bad eh?

Chris Wells, in the end, was an Ohio football player. Even with him having ties to UM and such, he could see that OSU is stacked with Freshman and sophmores at RB. The starter at UM will probably be the same year or even a year behind Hart. I think that if Wells made his choice based on PT, he might have made a bad one because I don't know that UM will be as good or as deep as OSU at RB in his four years. Extremely glad he's a Buckeye though.

Also how quickly we forgot we did recruit 2 running backs last year. Not chopped liver, but still under the cloud of if Clarett was coming back or not. This year we got Mo Wells and JG you can put under a different story all together. Now with C. Wells under the mix I don't see an OOS RB looking to come to Columbus for a bit. Does that mean Tressel can't recruit OOS RB if we don't get one next year?

I didn't forget them. Let's not forget we didn't even attempt to look outside the state last year for RB, but then again we thought MoC was going to be a Buck for a few years, and I think maybe JT put forth more effort at other positions that particular recruiting year. Not really many superstar players according to the gurus that year outside of TG2, but that's not a big deal. Does it mean he can't recruit OOS RB? Nonsense. There's no telling how disappointed we might be if Gwaltney is a stud though.

So we have seen some weird happenings the last few years recruiting. We have had some weird circumstances that might have influenced this. Results is the true measuring point, and next year we are a Top 5 team. Not bad eh?

Oh yes, next year looks good indeed. I still think it'd look better if we had McClover. I'd feel more confident that our RB situation will turn out for the better if we had JG. Still, next season looks good.

Neither of those three have proved to be world-beaters. Granted, Quinn is starting at ND, but he hasn't been all that great. Crable and Burgess have been primarily special-teams players, although Burgess had significant PT in The Game. I don't think we missed out at all with them. Besides, Quinn has been an ND fan ever since he watched college football, so there was nothing that any school could do to get him away from South Bend. Burgess had those "girl problems" with Clarett, so that played as much a factor as anything in his going to Michigan. The only one you could really say we "lost" was Crable, and out of the three, he's played the least.

So those three haven't been great, but what happens when the recruits we start to lose turn out to be the good ones? It's not like we didn't want any of those three to be Buckeyes.

 

[jwinslow]

JG does NOT appear to be someone we would want here. I'm not trying to bash him, but merely look at what he did with the two coaching staffs.

Apparently he made his decision as much as a week before, if not earlier. Yet he pretended all along like WVU was way out of it. He told both tOSU & USC's staffs that he was coming there the day before he announced, and when he announced for WV the next day there was no mention of changing his mind (like Wilson admitted).

Another telling fact is why would Tressel call and ask what's up after the news article if he knew JG was going to WVU? Info often gets leaked about guys right before they sign, so if JG had told Tressel "Sorry I'm gonna go to WV" there would have been no real need to call.

Both tOSU & USC's recruiting goals were ruined because of JG (note I said goals not classes, tOSU still got a great one in MWells). Javon Ringer or others might have been bigger targets had JG not played games with the two staffs.

I would be able to give him some slack if he had not been saying all along "I know where I'm going." He also verballed to WV way back. There's no telling how long he's been solid on WV, or if he actually wavered at all.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

I love Ohio kids, I think they're great. But where's the blue chipper?

For example, Ohio State is a HUGE producer of DBs, yet Ashton Youboty is the biggest DB we can land (Again, I love Ashton...)?

Why couldn't we close the deal with Rico? He plays on the right side of the ball for OSU. The playing time was there. Everything was there. He goes to Tennessee. Opportunity wasn't the problem there, so why did he choose UT?

I won't quote all the other stuff you've said in this thread, and I'll address them as a whole. You obviously read too much into recruiting rankings, and also fail to understand the dynamics of recruiting. We can't get everyone, and while we may not get the amount of OOS "blue-chippers" you may desire, the staff does a excellent job of evaluating talent that the recruiting "experts" miss (Holmes, Youboty, etc.). If those same experts would've seen how good Holmes and Youboty really are at the college level, they both would've been 5-stars, so don't let those experts' misevaluation of talent sway your judgment on how well Tressel and staff recruit.

In regards to Quinn, Crable, and Burgess, you said "So those three haven't been great, but what happens when the recruits we start to lose turn out to be the good ones? It's not like we didn't want any of those three to be Buckeyes." Well, what happens when those kids you feel we should get turn out to be busts instead? Maybe Crable and Burgess are playing at Michigan only because they wouldn't even see the field at Ohio State due to our talent.

As for us losing folks (McCoy, Gwaltney, etc.), who knows what the thinking processes of 17-year-old kids are? The fact that we were even in the final three or two for these top-notch kids is a testament to Tressel and his staff. Gwaltney appears to be a head case (telling both USC and OSU the day before NLOID that he was going to their school, then picking WVU on NLOID...he actually had decided on WVU days before but thought it would be fun to jerk USC and OSU around some). Personally, I'm now glad he's going to WVU...we'll be reading about him in ESPN the Ragazine. McCoy just happens to commit after a weekend visit, along with several other recruits, to Tennessee...who on this board really believes that something extremely shady didn't take place down there?

You also made the statement that Tressel has had more decommits than Cooper. Prove it. Name all the decommits under Tressel and then those under Cooper. But even if it does prove true that Tressel has indeed had a decommit or two more than Cooper, that means squat, as the overall recruiting scenario across college football is significantly different than 5-10 years ago.

 

[Piney]

This is what I was saying. He's a genuine guy, but it made me think about it with the Tebow situation. Not offer another QB until Tebow makes his decision? That's pretty noble, is it noble to a fault? Is it really being disingenuous to a kid if you say 'you're my #1 choice, but I understand that I might not be yours. I won't take another QB if you come on my team, but I will be talking to and offering other QBs until you make your decision.' Then what stops you from saying htat to another recruit, too? I chuckled and thought about being Petey's #1 guy. I didn't think it was all bad, and I don't think it's shady or disingenuous unless you do or say something to a kid and then reneg on that promise later.

I don't think the situation with Tebow will prevent us from offering another QB. It seems like Tebow might be head and shoulders above the other guys and we will take him no matter what. But to think we can get him from Florida with parents being UF grads and Urban Meyer searching a replacement for Leak soon... that is more wishful thinking.

The big thing is who do we offer between 4 other QBs that are all highly rated but maybe closely bunched in talent. The summer camps will be huge in determining who gets other offers. I have no problem in waiting until the summer camps to really determine who the coaching staff really wants to zero in on. If we don't offer 1 or 2 more QBs after the summer camps, then you have a valid question about waiting for Tebow and how many offers we give out. But it is just too early in the process to worry about who has offers yet.

 

[jwinslow]

Who the heck cares if Cooper did recruit OOS better? Did those current NFL stars win any NC's? Did they do a good job against UM? Did they live up to their billing?

As far as I can see, Tressel's recruits are outplaying Cooper's (yes the '02 team was largely Cooper's guys, but MoC and Nuge were vital cogs to that team). I seem to remember an all tressel team absolutely trashing two favored teams at the end of this year. Notch the beginning portion of the season up to the most players taken in a 7 round NFL draft, and Bollman still coaching the OL.

We'll see next year whether Tressel's highly touted team can live up to the hype. If they can even make it to the Rose Bowl and lose, they will have outdone Cooper's great teams that always let us down vs TSUN.

 

[souL]

Who the heck cares if Cooper did recruit OOS better? Did those current NFL stars win any NC's? Did they do a good job against UM? Did they live up to their billing?

Let's not be so quick to blame it on the players. We all saw how badly Coop could ruin a good season.

As far as I can see, Tressel's recruits are outplaying Cooper's (yes the '02 team was largely Cooper's guys, but MoC and Nuge were vital cogs to that team). I seem to remember an all tressel team absolutely trashing two favored teams at the end of this year. Notch the beginning portion of the season up to the most players taken in a 7 round NFL draft, and Bollman still coaching the OL.

So... when Tressel wins with Cooper's players, Tressel gets the credit, but when Tressel loses with Tressel's players, blame it on Cooper's players? No... no I don't think so. Jim Tressel's a much better COACH than John Cooper will ever be, he's proven that. That's why the team won. Coop always looked like he'd rather swallow a rail spike than play Michigan. If we had Coop talent and JT coaching, we'd likely be top 5-10 year in and year out. That '98 team under JT guidance... oh wow. Not even Coop could bring that team to lose to Michigan. I feel so much better because Jim Tressel's our head football coach, and I'm sure 99.9% of Buckeyeland that doesn't want Glenn Mason to coach the team is glad too. It's not because he is so much better of a recruiter.

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

Let's not be so quick to blame it on the players. We all saw how badly Coop could ruin a good season.


So... when Tressel wins with Cooper's players, Tressel gets the credit, but when Tressel loses with Tressel's players, blame it on Cooper's players?

Just where are you getting that idea? Are you Conley incognito?

 

[Catfish Biff's]

If we had Coop talent and JT coaching, we'd likely be top 5-10 year in and year out.

Excuse me if I'm out of line here, being a new poster, but that is a totally baseless claim. I attended OSU on the tail-end of Cooper's reign, and maybe you didn't notice, but he left somewhat of a void there on the offensive line. Sure, there were a couple of great players, like LeCharles Bentley, but they didn't have a lot of eligibility remaining.

We're pretty damn close to top 5-10 year in and year out as it is--I'd like to see the team that loses 14 players to the NFL draft (+1 for Clarett), arguably the best defensive coordinator in the nation, and its long-time recruiting coordinator, and still end up a top 10 team. Guess what--it's never happened. No team has ever lost so much in the course of one season.

Am I the only one who foresees the Buckeyes having a good shot at the #1 recruting class for 2006, recruiting services be damned all the same?

 

[Piney]

If we had Coop talent and JT coaching, we'd likely be top 5-10 year in and year out. That '98 team under JT guidance... oh wow. Not even Coop could bring that team to lose to Michigan. I feel so much better because Jim Tressel's our head football coach, and I'm sure 99.9% of Buckeyeland that doesn't want Glenn Mason to coach the team is glad too. It's not because he is so much better of a recruiter.

I agree with JT coaching, but Coop in his later years started bringing in more questionable characters that led to the inmates running the asylum that led to his departure. While Coop would bring in the NFL type players he was hitting around 50% and the other 50% got into trouble. I know JT has brought in a few himself, but it seems like he is turning that around.

JT seems to be going the New England Patriot type players, the character guys that are smart and play team ball. While JT gets the 50% NFL type players... more are from Ohio and JT fills in the other half with character guys that know their roles and because of higher character and smarts have a better chance to get better due to hard work.

 

[EasyBuck]

Is Tressel a top-5 Recruiter?

I like the opinions that have some reasoning - agree with some but want to challenge others that have surfaced more than once or twice on the boards.

In the areas of running a football program as head coach, motivator, leader, example of character etc... there's not a doubt Tressel is in the top-5 in the country. His teams always get better throughout the year and show up large in big games and are excelling in the classroom.


I don't agree with alot of the posters about Tressel not recruiting well OOS or having an inordinate number of de-commits or not being a late closer or not being a top-5 recruiter. These opinions are thrown around with no supporting documentation.

Let's use facts and list the players that were lost and then compare that against the list of players that are or will be at tOSU. In-state, out-of-state, early commits, commits in the last month of recruiting - anyway you shake it out Tressel is one fine recruiter except on NLOID. And if one uses NLOID only that's a pretty narrow window in the picture of recruiting.


OOS recruiting, folks have mentioned losing McCoy, Sanchez and Gwaltney this year and Davis, Jarrett last year and Washington and McClover the year before but fail to mention bringing in Worthington, Williams, Nicol, Mitchum, Skinner, Lyons, Wells. Or Dukes, Gholstein, Abdallah, Russell, Patterson ... and there's plenty of other players to add to this list. Impressive indeed are the current Buckeyes from OOS. Over one third of his classes the last two years are from OOS. Who else recruits that many players from OOS?
Should we use the 1 in 7 OOS recruit "rule of thumb"?


Not a top-5 recruiter? Here's the bottom line on Tressel recruiting, let's ask outselves these quesions:

Are there 5 teams with a more deep, quality roster in college football?
What's the last Buckeye roster with this depth and quality? '02 or '98?

Count the recruits from the last three years, I see 55 of 63 of the players still in school and ready to contribute to the team.

Mighty impressive recruiting. I'm looking forward to seeing these "not top-5 recruits" on the field next year to answer the question.


Who are the de-commits. I can remember Bemoll, Washington and McClover over the last three years. Who else? One a year. Maybe I'm missing a few though (certainly not Morris or Davis).


Tressel can't close late. Let's look at a list of the players Tressel closed in the last 15 days or so of the recruiting period in the past few year:

Mike D’Andrea, Brandon Mitchell, Nate Salley, Santonio Holmes, Bobby Carpenter, Troy Smith, Louis Irizarry, Ira Guilford, Marcel Frost, Teddy Ginn, Alex Barrow, Vernon Gohlstein, Nick Patterson, Kyle Mitchum, Nadar Abdallah, Albert Dukes, Curtis Terry, Devon Lyons, Freddy Lenix, Maurice Wells, Donald Washington, Brian Robiskie and Lawrence Wilson. That's some serious closing my friends with some seriously talented football players. And let's include Lydell Ross, Maurice Hall and Dustin Fox from 2001 - that's just from memory and I can attest that my memory is NOT a top-5 memory:-)


Can't recruit OOS...
Can't close late in recruiting period...
Didn't recruit top-5 talent....
Has too many de-commits....

I will disagree.

Peace

 

[stxbuck]

Couple of points

1-If a recruit is down to OSU and Auburn,Tennessee,WVU,etc-and does not pick OSU-I'll bet some $$$$ is involved. Maybe they would have chosen the school anyway, but you need to look at who is pulling the kids away. I think USC is an honorable program, as is Oklahoma-now, and Miami-now. Same for the Big 10 schools.

2-If a coach is a great recruiter, he does not leave his team in the lurch like Coop did in 2000. The O-line was in horrible shape. scUM and PSU were making huge inroads in Ohio. He had a wonderful run in the mid/late 90's, but his castle was crumbling. Tressel also had to clean up the mess Cooper left w/ the HS coaches in Ohio-they felt dissrespected by him, and did not have positive feelings towards the program as a result. How do all these things make Cooper a better recruiter than Tressel? To be honest, I am very impressed by the way Tressel recruits-his is building a much more solid long term foundation than Coop did.........

 

[martinss01]

I won't take another QB if you come on my team, but I will be talking to and offering other QBs until you make your decision.' Then what stops you from saying htat to another recruit, too?

this isn't how you handle your relationships is it? you ole romantic you . amy honey, you know your my #1 unless diane takes her top off first...

isn't that the definition of lyeing?

 

[Socky]

Video of Zwick?

in the bowl game hitting the defensive player,i would love to see that hit again.