-
Follow us on Twitter @buckeyeplanet and @bp_recruiting, like us on Facebook! Enjoy a post or article, recommend it to others! BP is only as strong as its community, and we only promote by word of mouth, so share away!
- Thread starter BuckNutty
- Start date
I seem to remember Donte Whitner, Ted Ginn, Jamario ONeal, and soon to be Ray Small (hopefully) all being 5 star DBs all from the same tOSU farm team.souL said:
Rico bought the ESPiN crap. It really isn't hard to understand believing it (one of the OOS recruits was bound to). Plus we all know how most of us feel about the recruiting tactics at Tenn (I won't even get into whether or not its a dirty school).
Upvote
0
Texas gets less out of state recruits than tOSU, but they do well in recruiting. For tOSU, with the solid base in Ohio, it should always be a mix of the best in-state guys and a few out-of-state blue chippers.souL said:
Upvote
0
stagtennis
Rose Bowl Bound!!!!
Soul, though you have many valid points, I think JT's recruiting philosophy comes back to when he started. He stated that his first goal was to build a wall around Ohio. I think that he has done a great job in that. I think he has also established some great ties in Florida, PA and New Jersey.
OOS recruiting is a science. What USC is doing is unbelievable. It typically takes coaches years to develop strong ties OOS. I think our staff has done a great job in many out of state high school factories, and maybe they missed signing a kid, but they definitely have made great connections and ties with coaches. Look for our OOS production to continue to get stronger and stronger each year. IMO, OSU will always recruit greater than 70% of kids from in-state. We just have that much talent.
It's hard to judge JT from his recent misses (Gwaltney, Ashley, Mccoy, Crable, Burgess etc etc). I'd much rather look at the misses from his first two recruiting classes. Does anyone have any analysis of how the 2001 and 2002 misses have performed? I would to compare their numbers to the numbers of the current players at their position.
OOS recruiting is a science. What USC is doing is unbelievable. It typically takes coaches years to develop strong ties OOS. I think our staff has done a great job in many out of state high school factories, and maybe they missed signing a kid, but they definitely have made great connections and ties with coaches. Look for our OOS production to continue to get stronger and stronger each year. IMO, OSU will always recruit greater than 70% of kids from in-state. We just have that much talent.
It's hard to judge JT from his recent misses (Gwaltney, Ashley, Mccoy, Crable, Burgess etc etc). I'd much rather look at the misses from his first two recruiting classes. Does anyone have any analysis of how the 2001 and 2002 misses have performed? I would to compare their numbers to the numbers of the current players at their position.
Upvote
0
stxbuck
Woody wore Sambas
Couple of points
1-Controlling your own state is a skill in and of itself-Penn State has declined largely because of an inability to do this, the South Carolina and North Carolina schools regularly lose lots of top notch guys to OOS programs-Tressel has focused on building a strong wall because he realizes that is where his best chance of success lies. People rave about USC's ability to get OOS studs-guess what-they have signed about 6 OOS superstuds in the last 2 classes. All the rest of the sick talent comes from having a stranglehold on the LA/San Diego area-just like Tressel does w/ Ohio, although I would argue that LA/San Diego is an even richer talent talent area than Ohio.
2-Even if an area if "controlled" by a certain school-Ohio, Southern California, Oklahoma,etc.-a few kids are ging to get away. It happens-even to USC. Marlon Lucky was the #1 RB in the nation this year, from North Hollywood,Ca. He chose to go to Nebraska over an offer from USC. Maurice Wells went to Ohio State over the Florida schools. Demetrice Morley, from Miami, committed to Tennessee over all 3 Florida schools. Manningham went to scUM over OSU(although Warren Harding has a pro-scUM coaching staff and feeder program). 1 or 2 recruits getting away in-state is par for the course for any top program. A consistent pattern-what is happening to PSU-is a cause for worry.
3-A lot of the recruits OSU and USC have butted heads over have come from areas-Minnesota,NY,NJ-where there is no strong regional tie to either school, and factors such as playing time, glamour,etc. have a much stronger appeal. USC,IMO, has pulled 3 players in the last 3 years out of areas controlled by other schools-Davis-Toledo, Patrick Turner-Tennessee, and Keith Rivers-Florida.
4-As far as decommits-they happen to everyone--------Miami and Texas each had bluechip QBs decommit on them late in the process-Derek Shaw and Ryan Perilloux. USC got played by Gwaltney(as did OSU). Oklahoma had a bluechip DL decommit from them them to Texas. Florida and Florida State both had kids decommit. It sucks,but you roll w/ the punches.
1-Controlling your own state is a skill in and of itself-Penn State has declined largely because of an inability to do this, the South Carolina and North Carolina schools regularly lose lots of top notch guys to OOS programs-Tressel has focused on building a strong wall because he realizes that is where his best chance of success lies. People rave about USC's ability to get OOS studs-guess what-they have signed about 6 OOS superstuds in the last 2 classes. All the rest of the sick talent comes from having a stranglehold on the LA/San Diego area-just like Tressel does w/ Ohio, although I would argue that LA/San Diego is an even richer talent talent area than Ohio.
2-Even if an area if "controlled" by a certain school-Ohio, Southern California, Oklahoma,etc.-a few kids are ging to get away. It happens-even to USC. Marlon Lucky was the #1 RB in the nation this year, from North Hollywood,Ca. He chose to go to Nebraska over an offer from USC. Maurice Wells went to Ohio State over the Florida schools. Demetrice Morley, from Miami, committed to Tennessee over all 3 Florida schools. Manningham went to scUM over OSU(although Warren Harding has a pro-scUM coaching staff and feeder program). 1 or 2 recruits getting away in-state is par for the course for any top program. A consistent pattern-what is happening to PSU-is a cause for worry.
3-A lot of the recruits OSU and USC have butted heads over have come from areas-Minnesota,NY,NJ-where there is no strong regional tie to either school, and factors such as playing time, glamour,etc. have a much stronger appeal. USC,IMO, has pulled 3 players in the last 3 years out of areas controlled by other schools-Davis-Toledo, Patrick Turner-Tennessee, and Keith Rivers-Florida.
4-As far as decommits-they happen to everyone--------Miami and Texas each had bluechip QBs decommit on them late in the process-Derek Shaw and Ryan Perilloux. USC got played by Gwaltney(as did OSU). Oklahoma had a bluechip DL decommit from them them to Texas. Florida and Florida State both had kids decommit. It sucks,but you roll w/ the punches.
Upvote
0
souL
I.bulldoze
We could add Hart, Xavier Lee, and a few others to the 'whiff' department in big names and not going to OSU.
I don't know, it just seems as if the number is just a bit low for OSU in terms of effort they put forth toward landing OOS stars and the actual arrival of OOS stars. Again, notable exceptions come from the TE (during Tress's years at OSU, he's pretty much had a lock on whatever TE he wanted) and to a lesser extent the OL spot, where we have shown ability to dip into other states (Taz, Mitchum). I was really happy to see we closed the deal with Mo Wells, but I think it's a special case because of our severe lack of depth there. I'd like to think OSU can do better with the OOS RBs, and here's another spot where JT's track record isn't exactly spotless.
I don't want it to seem like I'm down on the program, Ohio kids, or anything of that nature, because I think that so far he's done a fine job, but this year is the first year of a 100% JT team. No more Coop players now. Granted the star power wasn't HUGE last year, Tressel's two best seasons came on the backs of players he didn't court into the program. I'm not saying I'm worried about next year because it does look like that '02 class is going to have a HUGE impact on '05. I know that OOS players aren't going to make or break OSU, but I know how jealous I got watching McClover play for Auburn last year, and thought about the difference he might have been able to make for us in the beginning of the year. Kinda makes me wish we could shell out cash like Auburn
I don't know, it just seems as if the number is just a bit low for OSU in terms of effort they put forth toward landing OOS stars and the actual arrival of OOS stars. Again, notable exceptions come from the TE (during Tress's years at OSU, he's pretty much had a lock on whatever TE he wanted) and to a lesser extent the OL spot, where we have shown ability to dip into other states (Taz, Mitchum). I was really happy to see we closed the deal with Mo Wells, but I think it's a special case because of our severe lack of depth there. I'd like to think OSU can do better with the OOS RBs, and here's another spot where JT's track record isn't exactly spotless.
Darius Hiley can also be placed on this list. I was referring to landing guys like Justin King or... ahhh the kid from '03 slips my mind. It's ok though. My point is we've got half a dozen DB starters in the NFL, two great DBs on the field now, and we can't attract OOS DBs?
I don't want it to seem like I'm down on the program, Ohio kids, or anything of that nature, because I think that so far he's done a fine job, but this year is the first year of a 100% JT team. No more Coop players now. Granted the star power wasn't HUGE last year, Tressel's two best seasons came on the backs of players he didn't court into the program. I'm not saying I'm worried about next year because it does look like that '02 class is going to have a HUGE impact on '05. I know that OOS players aren't going to make or break OSU, but I know how jealous I got watching McClover play for Auburn last year, and thought about the difference he might have been able to make for us in the beginning of the year. Kinda makes me wish we could shell out cash like Auburn
Upvote
0
martinss01
blissfully stupid
will tressel miss out on a recruit or 2 because of this approach? of course he will. every now and then he will get a recruit who is going to verbal with tOSU and then sign with someone else leaving tressel holding the bag because he had no #2 guy. but the flip side of that coin is when tressel and tOSU come knocking on someones door that recruit will know "they are the guy". they will know that when we offer it won't be you and ten other top guys and whoever signs first signs first. when we offer for one spot, we are offering you period because we want "YOU". we're not going to lie to you. we aren't going to give you any false hopes. we are going to tell you how it is and if you like what you see, the offer is on the table.
both wells and schoenhoft mentioned this when asked about the recruiting process. so, while you can argue that this approach lost us gwantley. i can come right back with it atleast helped to get us wells and schoenhoft.
i think tressel's reputation in doing this is going to work in his favor more and more as time goes on. not because recruits will know "he's a stand up guy", they don't remember those things. but their coaches will. the coaches will tell their kids when tressel comes knocking on your door, its because its legit and you should most certainly take it serious. they are going to say "tressel doesn't want you because he needs a tb, he wants you because he wants "YOU".
both wells and schoenhoft mentioned this when asked about the recruiting process. so, while you can argue that this approach lost us gwantley. i can come right back with it atleast helped to get us wells and schoenhoft.
i think tressel's reputation in doing this is going to work in his favor more and more as time goes on. not because recruits will know "he's a stand up guy", they don't remember those things. but their coaches will. the coaches will tell their kids when tressel comes knocking on your door, its because its legit and you should most certainly take it serious. they are going to say "tressel doesn't want you because he needs a tb, he wants you because he wants "YOU".
Upvote
0
By the way... love this argument. Great points souL.
I will add this to the fire. Could this be the convergence of all the exterior movements coming together at one time to really cloud what is really happening? Mainly being the academic arm of Ohio State is trying to force Tressel down a certain road. The NY Times article on Clarett getting special treatment might have hurried this course. The confusion of last year (losing M. Williams & DaJuan Morgan) might add to this mix. Then throw in the ESPN allegations and you have this weird takeoff point. Where do things go from here?
This new concentrated effort might be the results of this. Of course there still might be tweeking to be done of perfecting the system. Then throw in a 1st year Recruiting Coordinator and I am happy with a Top 10 Recruiting class. Now next year... we better do better!
Now to one of your points... You mention the lack of OOS Running Backs. When you recruit a Freshman one year that becomes the talk of the Heisman... They aren't leaving for another 3 years. Kinda puts a damper on incoming OOS RBs coming in. Perfect example, Chris Wells was considered a scUM lean due to family and mentioned Oklahoma as a possible place to go. But look at those 2 schools. They just had very successful Freshman running backs, an OOS recruit looks at things from afar and see no playing time til they are Juniors... kinda stops them cold. So the end result? Chris Wells becomes a Buckeye. Not bad eh?
Also how quickly we forgot we did recruit 2 running backs last year. Not chopped liver, but still under the cloud of if Clarett was coming back or not. This year we got Mo Wells and JG you can put under a different story all together. Now with C. Wells under the mix I don't see an OOS RB looking to come to Columbus for a bit. Does that mean Tressel can't recruit OOS RB if we don't get one next year?
So we have seen some weird happenings the last few years recruiting. We have had some weird circumstances that might have influenced this. Results is the true measuring point, and next year we are a Top 5 team. Not bad eh?
I will add this to the fire. Could this be the convergence of all the exterior movements coming together at one time to really cloud what is really happening? Mainly being the academic arm of Ohio State is trying to force Tressel down a certain road. The NY Times article on Clarett getting special treatment might have hurried this course. The confusion of last year (losing M. Williams & DaJuan Morgan) might add to this mix. Then throw in the ESPN allegations and you have this weird takeoff point. Where do things go from here?
This new concentrated effort might be the results of this. Of course there still might be tweeking to be done of perfecting the system. Then throw in a 1st year Recruiting Coordinator and I am happy with a Top 10 Recruiting class. Now next year... we better do better!
Now to one of your points... You mention the lack of OOS Running Backs. When you recruit a Freshman one year that becomes the talk of the Heisman... They aren't leaving for another 3 years. Kinda puts a damper on incoming OOS RBs coming in. Perfect example, Chris Wells was considered a scUM lean due to family and mentioned Oklahoma as a possible place to go. But look at those 2 schools. They just had very successful Freshman running backs, an OOS recruit looks at things from afar and see no playing time til they are Juniors... kinda stops them cold. So the end result? Chris Wells becomes a Buckeye. Not bad eh?
Also how quickly we forgot we did recruit 2 running backs last year. Not chopped liver, but still under the cloud of if Clarett was coming back or not. This year we got Mo Wells and JG you can put under a different story all together. Now with C. Wells under the mix I don't see an OOS RB looking to come to Columbus for a bit. Does that mean Tressel can't recruit OOS RB if we don't get one next year?
So we have seen some weird happenings the last few years recruiting. We have had some weird circumstances that might have influenced this. Results is the true measuring point, and next year we are a Top 5 team. Not bad eh?
Upvote
0
souL
I.bulldoze
I agree, and this is was never disputed. A home turf is necessary in a good recruitng class and Jim Tressel's definitely established that.stxbuck said:
Again, I agree. I think in this area, OSU has been a little worse than desireable. Then again, it's not as easy to patrol a whole state. The year we missed the 'big three' of Crable, Burgess, and Quinn definitely stood out in my eyes. This year was a MUCH MUCH better year in that sense, but we might have lost more than one had it not been for the absolutely ludicrous firing of Ty Willingham. JamO and Boone committed early and helped keep the state at OSU
And at this point, USC at the top of the mound. Petey flies in on his jet, massages some egoes, tells mommy and daddy all the right things, and there you have it. I think it's even more important for people like Stoops, 3L in TSun, and other schools without the strongest high school talent around them to be the best recruiters.
Does it happen once a year? Irizarry (though he came back), Bemoll, McClover, and again it feels like I'm forgetting someone. I know these are kids we're dealing with... but should we just accept it every year, year in and year out? I wasn't into recruiting like I became in the Cooper era, so I have no frame of refrence on this one.
Upvote
0
Saw31
High Seas Rogue
I think there may be some unrealistic expectations here. First, I look at it more like a batting average. If you fail 6 out of 10 times (.400) that's still "Hall of Fame" type stuff. I just don't think you can ever expect to get every guy you want, even in just one year. Other schools have great tradition and opportunity as well. There is no shame in a kid wanting to go to some of these other schools. And every so often someone's Ohio mailing address isn't going to be enough to keep them in-state. They may have family ties to other parts of the country, or who knows what; all these situations are so different. In keeping with my weak baseball analogy, as long as we get the "base hits" every once in a while OOS and hit the "home runs" in-state, we'll keep things rolling rather well. IMO.
Upvote
0
souL
I.bulldoze
This is what I was saying. He's a genuine guy, but it made me think about it with the Tebow situation. Not offer another QB until Tebow makes his decision? That's pretty noble, is it noble to a fault? Is it really being disingenuous to a kid if you say 'you're my #1 choice, but I understand that I might not be yours. I won't take another QB if you come on my team, but I will be talking to and offering other QBs until you make your decision.' Then what stops you from saying htat to another recruit, too? I chuckled and thought about being Petey's #1 guy. I didn't think it was all bad, and I don't think it's shady or disingenuous unless you do or say something to a kid and then reneg on that promise later.martinss01 said:
Upvote
0
souL
I.bulldoze
Who's playin' baseball here?Saw31 said:
It's part of sport... to want what you can't realistically expect. I want the Bucks to win every game for the rest of my life, it won't happen. I want everyone OSU ever offers to sign at OSU, it won't happen. We're here to over-analyze, just like we learn on TV
Upvote
0
Buckeye737
Heisman
I think both sides make some good points, but there is one thing that I've noticed about JT that makes me think OSU recruiting (which I'd already rate as strong) is only going to get better. Take a look at his 16 years at YSU. Tressel is a perfectionist and he is constantly tinkering and making adjustments for improvement. For the coaching side of the game, I think there were probably only minor adjustments that had to be made with the move to major D1 football. The big difference that needed to be made from YSU to OSU is IMO... recruiting. Of course Conley has been a recruiting pro for years, but I think JT is the main man when it comes down to it and he had to make some adjustments. Take a look at the improvement in OOS recruits from 2002 to now. The 2005 class, which would have had McCoy and possibly more if it weren't for the MoC saga, is full of highly touted OOS talent. Just watch each year as JT tinkers and adjusts until he improves to near perfection. There are always going to be guys like Crable, Burgess, Daniels, and even McClover.
Upvote
0