Piracy, RIAA, Lawsuits

[scott91575]

Ok, who cares what the numbers are. I am not a "label", so whatever. If you've pirated a game, song, movie, etc...YOU'VE STOLEN IT. Period, end of conversation. No different then going to the store and hiding it under your jacket. I know for a fact that it's happening enough to change how they have to do business, however much you want to argue about the numbers.

You cared enough to quote numbers from someone in the industry, and I pointed out those numbers are always bullcrap.

It's fine, I buy games and I listen to Pandora. If you want to appeal to a person's morality, go right ahead. I am not fighting you on that. I am just pointing out the industry quotes bull numbers when talking about piracy, and should never be used in any argument about piracy's impact.

 

[Saw31]

You cared enough to quote numbers from someone in the industry, and I pointed out those numbers are always bullcrap.

It's fine, I buy games and I listen to Pandora. If you want to appeal to a person's morality, go right ahead. I am not fighting you on that. I am just pointing out the industry quotes bull numbers when talking about piracy, and should never be used in any argument about piracy's impact.

The guy who quoted me those numbers is not directly affected by those numbers. It was an anecdote. It was to give an idea of what impact the illegal downloads are having. He is in a position to know. Are the labels exaggerating? Don't know and don't care. Imo the labels would do themselves wise to embrace the technology and learn how they can use it effectively instead of being so stubborn. I also know that's not where they are headed though. They are headed down the enforcement and example making road. But none of that has to do with the prevailing sentiment that you're "just stealing from big business", so it doesn't matter. The fact is that you're stealing from more than just the big business guys. You're stealing from the bands and future bands who need the labels to get their own opportunities. That is fact, and I've seen how it's changed.

 

[scott91575]

The guy who quoted me those numbers is not directly affected by those numbers. It was an anecdote. It was to give an idea of what impact the illegal downloads are having. He is in a position to know. Are the labels exaggerating? Don't know and don't care. Imo the labels would do themselves wise to embrace the technology and learn how they can use it effectively instead of being so stubborn. I also know that's not where they are headed though. They are headed down the enforcement and example making road. But none of that has to do with the prevailing sentiment that you're "just stealing from big business", so it doesn't matter. The fact is that you're stealing from more than just the big business guys. You're stealing from the bands and future bands who need the labels to get their own opportunities. That is fact, and I've seen how it's changed.

He is in a position to know? Where do you think he got those numbers?

Oh, and they are not headed down the enforcement and example road. It's been done, many a time. It has no effect, and is a PR nightmare. If anything it would just speed up people switching from torrent to direct download. Then people cannot be nailed for distribution, then what are companies going to do, sue someone for the $1 and change for the song and a misdemeanor charge? Yeah, not going to happen.

As for the industry changing, I have seen a ton of industries change in the last 10-20 years. Look at electronics, and the auto industry. Industries change, and companies must adapt.

I will use these two since you seem to like moral high ground. In both industries, more and more are moving to cheap labor in China in order to compete. These jobs are so bad, that many employees would rather kill themselves. Yes, this is true. Check out Foxconn (who makes a lot of Apple components). They have had 20+ suicides. It is so bad, they have actually put nets around the building to stop people from jumping off the building. This is not photoshop, this is the real deal

Yep, those are suicide nets.

Yet this is an example of a consumer driven marketplace, one that you are very much a part of. So please don't cry for some random musicians because they have trouble getting rich on music while you gladly plop down money to an industry that supplies jobs to people and work them to the point they would rather die.

I am pointing this out so I can show why I don't feel bad for some poor US musician because the marketplace no longer treats them as well at it used to. Cry me a river, you have to find a normal job and only work on your hobby in your free time. Piracy may be wrong, but I am not about to get all upset about free music and it's effect on some random musician compared to much worse stuff that goes on in other industries. Piracy is here to stay, and in the big picture, I am in no way going to get all upset about it. The music industry needs to accept that, stop blaming, and adapt. In the mean time, excuse me while I don't cry for those poor musicians. Heck, I don't even cry for those Chinese workers.

 

[Saw31]

Ok, that post is so incredibly non-relevant...

And yeah, pretty much done here...

 

[scott91575]

Ok, that post is so incredibly non-relevant...

And yeah, pretty much done here...

Yeah, non relevant. I will point out the relevance.

1) Your take on enforcement, I pointed out why it doesn't work
2) Your appeal to morality about stealing. I point out that far worse happens, in industries you gladly support, and the consumer does not care there either (including you). Your appeal is not only fruitless, but while you stand on a moral high ground you have gladly been part of a consumer base that allows much worse to happen. Plus, the major music distributer (Apple) is very much a part of my example, but will join the cries for any piracy. Excuse my while I don't feel bad for them.

So, in the end, enforcement doesn't work and any appeal concerning those poor musicians doesn't work. Piracy is here to stay, and musicians along with the music industry needs to adapt instead of pointing fingers.

I am not stating piracy is a good thing, but any debate on it's effects and how to stop it is futile. Pirates already know what they are doing. It's about as futile as going up to a smoker and saying "you know that gives you cancer, right?"

 

[Oh8ch]

Roll the clock back a century or so and the only way musicians made money was by playing live.

When recording arrived these same folks were able to make money while they slept. Initially costs were high and artists who could benefit limited. Constraints of production and distribution gave rise to the industry that controls many of these artists even today.

As technology has evolved production costs approach zero and available artists approach infinity. This same technology let's people steal that music. Most folks now "own" far more music than they could afford to buy. A world filled with so much music is arguably not a bad thing. One result is that live performance is becoming a more important source of income once again.

Balcksmiths and buggy whip makers are anachronisms. Newspapers are going out of business as the printed word is on the decline. I have an app on my smart phone that lets me hold the phone up to the sky and identify the same constellations my ancestors marveled over thousands of years ago. Some guy in Korea is making tens of thousands at $.99 per download of an app that let's me play sudoku on that same phone.

Downloading music is illegal. Efforts by the music industry to enforce the laws is all about fat cats making a last ditch effort to hang on and has little to do with the average artist. And in the end it's the same technology that allowed artists to make music in their sleep coming to fruition. If you are a musician who just cut a CD that has to piss you off. Shit happens. Take a step back, figure out where things are going and make the best of it. Change careers and become a magazine editor or encyclopedia salesman.

Downloading music is theft - pure and simple. On my list of moral issues this one comes in at 1,456.

 

[jimotis4heisman]

Roll the clock back a century or so and the only way musicians made money was by playing live.

When recording arrived these same folks were able to make money while they slept. Initially costs were high and artists who could benefit limited. Constraints of production and distribution gave rise to the industry that controls many of these artists even today.

As technology has evolved production costs approach zero and available artists approach infinity. This same technology let's people steal that music. Most folks now "own" far more music than they could afford to buy. A world filled with so much music is arguably not a bad thing. One result is that live performance is becoming a more important source of income once again.

Balcksmiths and buggy whip makers are anachronisms. Newspapers are going out of business as the printed word is on the decline. I have an app on my smart phone that lets me hold the phone up to the sky and identify the same constellations my ancestors marveled over thousands of years ago. Some guy in Korea is making tens of thousands at $.99 per download of an app that let's me play sudoku on that same phone.

Downloading music is illegal. Efforts by the music industry to enforce the laws is all about fat cats making a last ditch effort to hang on and has little to do with the average artist. And in the end it's the same technology that allowed artists to make music in their sleep coming to fruition. If you are a musician who just cut a CD that has to piss you off. Shit happens. Take a step back, figure out where things are going and make the best of it. Change careers and become a magazine editor or encyclopedia salesman.

Downloading music is theft - pure and simple. On my list of moral issues this one comes in at 1,456.

please provide 1-1455. thank you.

 

[sandgk]

please provide 1-1455. thank you.

and whether any of them involve cheese sauce ...

 

[jimotis4heisman]

I just wanted to admit that I stole Iron Maiden's Fear of the Dark when I was 12 years old...

But I did that shit the man's way!

howd you do it? record it off the radio? or the old double tape trick?

 

[scott91575]

As technology has evolved production costs approach zero and available artists approach infinity. This same technology let's people steal that music. Most folks now "own" far more music than they could afford to buy. A world filled with so much music is arguably not a bad thing. One result is that live performance is becoming a more important source of income once again.

To this point, studies have shown pirates also spend more on the medium they pirate than people that don't pirate. They are the ones that spend a ton on concerts, merchandise, and even legal media. In many cases, people pirate because they can't afford to buy more or end up spending it on something else but that something else is concert tickets or merchandise.

It's so funny that the entire world is talking about entertainment industry heavyweights shirking due to ease of information exchange, while the recording industry blames every cent on pirating. Much of the losses are simply due to the sheer amount of entertainment out these days. The claimed huge losses due to piracy are a huge lie and a scapegoat that record execs like to use to save their job.

Once again, pirating is not right, but it's not killing the industry or depriving some musician of his livelihood.

 

[Dryden]

I just wanted to admit that I stole Iron Maiden's Fear of the Dark when I was 12 years old...

But I did that shit the man's way!

You could also order 12 CDs for 1 penny then move.

 

[scott91575]

You could also order 12 CDs for 1 penny then move.

I know people that did that kind of stuff all the time in college (we moved every year).

 

[Muck]

Saw - Not to beat a dead horse since you've decided to opt out but there is something sadly ironic about claiming to have the moral high ground while defending an industry whose (in your own words) modus operandi is to ensure that those it contracts are in debt (and financially beholden to the industry) from the get go.

Really think about that for a moment before deciding who are and are not the bad guys in this scenario.

 

[Thump]

I use to use Limewire but it looks like it's been shut down. Just curious if anyone knew of another file sharing music place out there that's free.

Try mp3 Rocket.

 

[jwinslow]

http://m.Hurt Locker lawsuit targets a record-breaking 24,583 IP addresses

's been almost a year since the producers of The Hurt Locker filed a lawsuit against 5,000 alleged pirates suspected of distributing the film via BitTorrent. Now Voltage Pictures has updated its complaint, adding almost 20,000 IP addresses to the list of defendants

The plaintiff has already reached agreements with Charter and Verizon to identify individual users, but no such deal with Comcast, who owns nearly half the supposedly infringing addresses.

is it just me or does this seem pretty bogus? I don't mind a court order demanding their release, but are they selling these customer IP lists to them?

Linking those addresses with user accounts would let Voltage manage individual settlements -- probably somewhere between $1,000-$2,000 -- rather than continue legal action. All of this eerily echoes the Oscar-winning film's plot, about an adrenaline junkie who couldn't resist downloading just one more movie.

..........comments........

So let's say the movie studio actually lost $10 per download, that is a nett loss of $245.830, and now they're looking to get 36.874.500 instead? All I have to say is sorry, but that makes no sense. Sure you can claim that they also uploaded the movie, but there are still only 24.5k IP adresses, so that means that the movie has downloaded 24.5k times not 3.687.450 times.

I think you're being quite generous with the $10 per download lost estimate too. I'd estimate an average*profit*loss per download to be less than $1 (1 in 20 would have spent $20 on it, and the studio makes a 50%*profit*after producing the DVD/Blu ray, delivery and retail cuts = $0.50 per download). Quite frankly, I think I'm being generous.

Rented this movie on Blu-Ray because I thought it would be great for $4.99. I would have felt better burning $5, at least I wouldn't have been bored for 2 hours straight. If you want to make money in the movie industry, don't sue all of your customers. Make a movie like Avatar that is entertaining and isn't targeting high brow audiences. If your going high brow you aren't going to make money, so stop trying to do that, people aren't entertained by your product they won't watch it. I'm an engineering student with a job, I don't have time to psychoanalyze every part of a movie, I just want to be entertained, and this movie failed *at that. Which is why it made 0 dollars, not because of piracy. Movie makers who make no money need to realize that regardless of what awards they won, their movie didn't make money because nobody like it and not because people pirated it. I never pirate movies/games, and I know this movie failed because it was high brown, boring, and unentertaining, not because of pirates. If your going to say you made it for the artistic value, accept the fact that as a business product it is terrible. As an artistic product, it can be different, but from a business perspective it isn't.

If they get paid $2000 from only 10000 of the ips getting targeted, then it's already 20 mil.. And it only grossed about 24 mil at the box office..
Wtf ?

24583*2000 = 49,166,000.... really? they want 49 million?

Their case holds little water though. You can't blindly hold the
owners of IP addresses accountable unless you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt they are the
ones actually taking part in the illegal activity. Which they can't easily do without violating the law themselves and invading your privacy.
Its part of the reason my ISP refuses to hand over names, instead sometimes opting to temporarily disable service after passing along a notice on behalf of a studio/MPAA/RIAA that "someone" at your address pirated something. Suggesting you protect any wireless network you may have with a password.

Now if they storm in through your front door and find HurtLocker.mov sitting on your desktop then maybe. And if they could they probably would.