Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

[BuckeyeNation27]

I'm sure the situation exits at a lot of universities where the "academic side" is jealous of the popularity and/or control that the athletic side (i.e a sports team) has over the university. And that is nothing new.

It even came to a head at Ohio State in 1961 when the "faculty council" voted to not go to the Rose Bowl.

That's the thing, though. They act like they are the only Division 1 school in the country who is different. It's all a myth, kept alive by people lying about true things like players getting arrested, illegal benefits, and that minor raping of children thing. It's why a thing like the Sandusky mess could happen at a school and be covered up for so long. Everybody was invested in this Success With Honor bullshit. It had to be true.

 

[409fold]

This is like a guy walking into the police station with his computer in hand, saying, "I have child porn pictures on my computer." They arrest him and use his admission and the evidence they found on his computer to get a conviction. He can't come back later and say that they had no right to look at his computer, or that they took his words out of context.

If the sentencing guidelines for having child porn on his computers is "5 to 15 years in prison", should the judge be able to decide that he instead gets 30 years in prison?

 

[409fold]

PSU had zero right to or expectation of due process. The NCAA isn't the government. That is a legal term for our court systems. It is neither valid nor relevant when discussing the administrative sanctions of a private organization of which Penn State was a voluntary and willing member. If PSU felt they were being treated unfairly and didn't like the outcome, they were more than welcome to tell the NCAA to shove it up their ass, keep their $60M and resign their membership.

Of course Penn State had no LEGAL right to "due process." I never argued that.

They still SHOULD have received it.

I get that many people will never concede that last point. Fair enough.

I am not a fan of the Machivellian attitude of "the end result was fine, so who cares about the means by which they got there." My opinion in that regard has nothing to do with me being a Penn State person.

 

[Buckeye86]

If the sentencing guidelines for having child porn on his computers is "5 to 15 years in prison", should the judge be able to decide that he instead gets 30 years in prison?

The NCAA doesn't have sentencing guidelines and they are incredibly inconsistent.

However, I think most would agree that covering up child rape so your program maintains the myth of its infallibility is a more serious crime than anything any other college athletic department has ever done.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

PSU had zero right to or expectation of due process. The NCAA isn't the government. That is a legal term for our court systems. It is neither valid nor relevant when discussing the administrative sanctions of a private organization of which Penn State was a voluntary and willing member. If PSU felt they were being treated unfairly and didn't like the outcome, they were more than welcome to tell the NCAA to shove it up their ass, keep their $60M and resign their membership.

Also quite true..

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Of course Penn State had no LEGAL right to "due process." I never argued that.

They still SHOULD have received it.

I get that many people will never concede that last point. Fair enough.

I am not a fan of the Machivellian attitude of "the end result was fine, so who cares about the means by which they got there." My opinion in that regard has nothing to do with me being a Penn State person.

Seriously, what's your response to the fact that Penn State commissioned the Freeh group to investigate and Penn State turned those results over to the NCAA as it concerns this issue of "due process?" How can anyone argue with a straight face that Penn State didn't receive a fair examination of the facts surrounding that horrible mess? Penn State itself commissioned Freeh. Penn State itself responded to the NCAA inquiry with said report.

 

[tsteele316]

Seriously, what's your response to the fact that Penn State commissioned the Freeh group to investigate and Penn State turned those results over to the NCAA as it concerns this issue of "due process?" How can anyone argue with a straight face that Penn State didn't receive a fair examination of the facts surrounding that horrible mess? Penn State itself commissioned Freeh. Penn State itself responded to the NCAA inquiry with said report.

it's simple. they didn't like the contents of the Freeh Report, therefore they didn't get due process.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Seriously, what's your response to the fact that Penn State commissioned the Freeh group to investigate and Penn State turned those results over to the NCAA as it concerns this issue of "due process?" How can anyone argue with a straight face that Penn State didn't receive a fair examination of the facts surrounding that horrible mess? Penn State itself commissioned Freeh. Penn State itself responded to the NCAA inquiry with said report.

Exactly. Remember when the cult were all certain that the outside/independent Freeh group was going to fully justify Paterno's actions and rehabilitate his reputation. It's only after the report said things they didn't want to hear that they began to demonize him. I think PSU had about as much due process as has ever been shown in an NCAA investigation due to its reliance on the Freeh Report.

What kind of "due process" should the NCAA have allowed? One investigation after another until somebody finally exonerated the foosball program and Joesus? Maybe they should have commissioned McAndrew, 9Fold, Lubrano, demlion and Franco to do the report.

 

[409fold]

Seriously, what's your response to the fact that Penn State commissioned the Freeh group to investigate and Penn State turned those results over to the NCAA as it concerns this issue of "due process?" How can anyone argue with a straight face that Penn State didn't receive a fair examination of the facts surrounding that horrible mess? Penn State itself commissioned Freeh. Penn State itself responded to the NCAA inquiry with said report.

Again, I know there is no LEGAL right to this as concerns the NCAA and Penn State. But I absolutely 100% believe that ANY "defendant" --- be it in the legal system or some other place --- who pleads guilty should still get a chance to advocate for himself at the "sentencing stage."

Fair enough if you disagree.

-------------------------------

FWIW (this is tangential to the 2 paragraphs above), among the things that Penn State could have said at the "sentencing stage" in terms of advocating for themselves:

(1) our November 2011 University leadership did not HAVE to commission the Freeh Report it in the first place, yet we did.

(2) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership did not HAVE to release the Freeh Report to the public at the exact time that we ourselves saw it, yet we did.

(3) our November 2011 University leadership removed all of Spanier, Curley, Schulz and Paterno from their jobs within 96 hours of the story breaking. This is another thing we did not HAVE to do.

(4) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership is not and will not be a plantiff to any of the lawsuits currently active (or being considered) against either the NCAA or Louis Freeh.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

So because Penn State took some steps they didn't have to do, they shouldn't be punished as harshly for allowing a former coach to use Penn State facilities to groom and rape children.....while the head coach knew about it for at least 10 years, more than likely much longer than that? I'm not being a smart ass, I honestly don't know what you think those points would have done.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Among the things that Penn State could have said at the "sentencing stage" in terms of advocating for themselves:

(1) our November 2011 University leadership did not HAVE to commission the Freeh Report it in the first place, yet we did.

(2) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership did not HAVE to release the Freeh Report to the public at the exact time that we ourselves saw it, yet we did.

(3) our November 2011 University leadership removed all of Spanier, Curley, Schulz and Paterno from their jobs within 96 hours of the story breaking. This is another thing we did not HAVE to do.

(4) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership is not and will not be a plantiff to any of the lawsuits currently active (or being considered) against either the NCAA or Louis Freeh.

And all that probably saved Penn State from the death penalty, which it most certainly deserved.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

Again, I know there is no LEGAL right to this as concerns the NCAA and Penn State. But I absolutely 100% believe that ANY "defendant" --- be it in the legal system or some other place --- who pleads guilty should still get a chance to advocate for himself at the "sentencing stage."

Fair enough if you disagree.

-------------------------------

FWIW (this is tangential to the 2 paragraphs above), among the things that Penn State could have said at the "sentencing stage" in terms of advocating for themselves:

(1) our November 2011 University leadership did not HAVE to commission the Freeh Report it in the first place, yet we did.

(2) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership did not HAVE to release the Freeh Report to the public at the exact time that we ourselves saw it, yet we did.

(3) our November 2011 University leadership removed all of Spanier, Curley, Schulz and Paterno from their jobs within 96 hours of the story breaking. This is another thing we did not HAVE to do.

(4) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership is not and will not be a plantiff to any of the lawsuits currently active (or being considered) against either the NCAA or Louis Freeh.

And these are all to the credit of Erickson and the sane faction on the BoT. They're also the things that the cult foams at the mouth over and why they consider the university leadership to be evil and corrupt--i.e. because they put the long term image and health of the university ahead of the short-term goal of digging in and fighting for Joesus' legacy above all else.

As LJB said, it's most likely the reason that PSU's football program wasn't shut down by the NCAA and Big Ten.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Again, I know there is no LEGAL right to this as concerns the NCAA and Penn State. But I absolutely 100% believe that ANY "defendant" --- be it in the legal system or some other place --- who pleads guilty should still get a chance to advocate for himself at the "sentencing stage."

Fair enough if you disagree.

-------------------------------

FWIW (this is tangential to the 2 paragraphs above), among the things that Penn State could have said at the "sentencing stage" in terms of advocating for themselves:

(1) our November 2011 University leadership did not HAVE to commission the Freeh Report it in the first place, yet we did.

(2) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership did not HAVE to release the Freeh Report to the public at the exact time that we ourselves saw it, yet we did.

(3) our November 2011 University leadership removed all of Spanier, Curley, Schulz and Paterno from their jobs within 96 hours of the story breaking. This is another thing we did not HAVE to do.

(4) our November 2011-July 2012 University leadership is not and will not be a plantiff to any of the lawsuits currently active (or being considered) against either the NCAA or Louis Freeh.

With respect to the Bold - I'm sorry... I thought there was a consent decree that was signed. As your four points indicate... they didn't HAVE to sign it. And, as LJB observes, to the extent that the option was "sign this or we're going to shut you down" then PSU still made a choice it didn't HAVE to make. That, my friend, is participation, like it or not. EDIT: And, I can't prove it to be the case, but I doubt Erickson went in there and said nothing on behalf of leniency for PSU. I don't pretend to have all the events surrounding this event within my knowledge, but that said, I also don't think there is anything out there which shows that Erickson just fell on the sword either. You'd probably know that better than me, though.

It's not like a convicted murderer gets to choose his punishment "Well, given the death penalty or life in prison, you're honor, I'll take life" Sure... maybe he gets to make some sort of remorseful statement. Who gives a fuck? That doesn't reduce a death sentence to a life sentence if the murder chooses a bunch of nice flowery words.

Beyond all that, and directly concerning PSU's participation.... I say again, Penn State commissioned an independent investigation. Penn State submitted said investigation to the NCAA. Now, if the Board was stupid to allow the Freeh report to be public prior to their own eyes seeing it, so be it - But- that has literally nothing to do with the NCAA's punishment. Both in how the reality played out, nor in terms of some kind of mitigation.

 

[AJHawkfan]

If the sentencing guidelines for having child porn on his computers is "5 to 15 years in prison", should the judge be able to decide that he instead gets 30 years in prison?

I'll play....

If the only thing they find is the kiddie porn, I might actually agree with you. However, if they also find incriminating evidence of organized crime, international drug smuggling and illegal gambling, then I think a stiffer penalty is in order.....

Same for the Pedsters.

 

[Mike80]

[weekly rant] Ped State shouldn't exist as an institution. It should be burned to the ground and the Earth salted. They have failed humanity and the rabid Joebots deserve a fate similar to the institution. [/weekly rant]