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Penn State Cult (Joe Knew)

Yeah, most people simply aren't engaged. And the "Paterno Loyalists" have more motive to participate in these surveys/elections. They just do.

FWIW, I do work in the market research field. There's an element of truth to the joke: "tell me what number you want, there's a way for me to spin things to produce that number."
If you're embarrassed with the direction that PS4RS, Lubrano, Lord, Pedterno sons Jay/Scott, Blehar, Silverwood, Zeigler, et al are taking the school and you think it's damaging then do something counter to them. Not just you but anyone holding on to the notion that this is an isolated group of lunatics. But no one has and that's telling. They are either OK with the direction through apathy or empathy or scared to do anything counter. Either way it's the same end result.

Mark this down for next fall... when the BOT caves and there is a "honor Joe" day and the crowning moment is 100,000 plus giving a long standing ovation to JoePed at beaver stadium will you concede that the problem is much worse than you are willing to admit right now? Or will you say that all 100k are just a small faction?
 
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If you're embarrassed with the direction that PS4RS, Lubrano, Lord, Pedterno sons Jay/Scott, Blehar, Silverwood, Zeigler, et al are taking the school and you think it's damaging then do something counter to them. Not just you but anyone holding on to the notion that this is an isolated group of lunatics. But no one has and that's telling. They are either OK with the direction through apathy or empathy or scared to do anything counter. Either way it's the same end result.

Mark this down for next fall... when the BOT caves and there is a "honor Joe" day and the crowning moment is 100,000 plus giving a long standing ovation to JoePed at beaver stadium will you concede that the problem is much worse than you are willing to admit right now? Or will you say that all 100k are just a small faction?

Got it --- it's MY fault.

The alumni Board of Trustee members don't have that much power. The adults are still in charge. And they will remain in charge. Big picture, PS4RS is irrelevant and I don't NEED to "get involved" from my home here in Northern Kentucky (I don't exactly live that close to State College to "be involved.")

Besides, I'm a member of my local alumni chapter, I recruit for the school locally, and I've made a concerted effort to go to a bunch of ROAD football games in the post-November 2011 era to show non Penn State folk MY face of Penn State.

So, I think you're completely full of shit when you somehow insinuate this is MY fault. I DO do my part. Screw you for insinuating otherwise.

If you're up for it, I'll bet $1000 to $10 right now that there is NO "honor Joe" day in 2016 at Penn State. And neither will there be one in 2017, or 2018, or 2019, .........
 
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Here it is http://psaaforall.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PSAAforAll-survey-results-2016.pdf

You could have made a difference (or not) but it's closed to further input

Wow. 486 respondents.

And those 486 self-selected themselves - which pretty much guarantees the subset of 486 is not a statistically representative subset. At least when Quinnipiac or Gallup does one of their political polls, they make a best effort to get a statistically representative set.

What the heck happened in terms of "Penn State is committed to openness and transparency"? That dipped from a 6.40 to 1.87? Really, what event precipitated that? Doesn't that raise any eyebrows in terms of the sample set? As one who has experience in the survey research world, I'd say it should.
 
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Here it is http://psaaforall.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/PSAAforAll-survey-results-2016.pdf

You could have made a difference (or not) but it's closed to further input

Yeah --- so this survey (which as I look more closely, was not actually commissioned by the Penn State Alumni Association itself but another group, FWIW) --- there isn't even a hint of statistical rigor to the results.

http://psaaforall.org/2016/04/2016-psaaforall-survey-alumni-friends-penn-state/

You do not need to be an alumnus to participate in this survey, although we ask that you only take the survey once. The results will be reported at the Alumni Council meeting April 14-15th, 2016 at University Park.

(1) "No need to be an alumnus." (2) "we ask that you only take the survey once." (3) Only 486 people took the survey anyway. For all we know, 9fold voted 409 times!

Anyway: I think the flaws are obvious in referencing that 91% number as any sort of "fact."
 
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One other thing just occurred to me about this newest story. You know how one of the complaints you hear from the cult is how so many victims (or whatever you want to call them) came forward when the story broke because they were supposedly just jumping on the bandwagon to get their share of the payoff, and their claims were all lies? Well, in that case, I guess the kid named in the document from last century must have been one hell of a psychic, since back then nobody in the general public had heard of any accusations. Smooth move on his part, to jump out in front of a scandal that wouldn't break for another three decades. These so-called victims are some devious bastards.
 
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August 2nd, 1986.

Dear Diary;

Camp is going well. JS has put together a defense that will probably be the best I've ever coached. This team has a real shot at a national championship.

In other news, Jerry certainly did NOT fuck any little boys today, and absolutely nobody came to me to suggest that he did.

WE ARE!

P.S. This weekend has gotten off to a great start.

One of the most absurd things with the Sandusky issue hits BWI right in the face, and they still fail to see it:

https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...ee-this-quote-kind-of-hard-to-believe.116481/


I took out the {snip}. Originally, it said, "working for The Second Mile charity", but I think it takes away from the statement.
This is what we've been saying for years.
1. Why did McQueary go to Joe Paterno? Go to the police!
2. Why did Joe Paterno go to the athletic director? Kick McQueary in the ass and tell him to call the police! Then call the police, yourself! And when you see the guy walking around the next week, go to the police and ask if they've done anything about him. And if they haven't, ask them why the hell not!

The fact that these people are going to Joe Paterno tells me two things: first is that they're lying about it. All of them. They all have the exact same lie. Second, if they aren't lying, they knew that, even only 4 years into Paterno's reign, he truly ran that town - at least the "big picture" things.

McQ was obviously a pseudo blackmail card. He went into that office being released after grad assistant. He left that office as a permanent fixture on Paterno's staff. It says everything you need to know. Both about the veracity (they were afraid and blackmail was effective) and the character of everyone involved.
FWIW, I'll chime in. I've thought about the things that have happened the last couple days --- there are a few oddities that pique the curiosity:

(1) The CNN and NBC stories break within 24 hours of the ruling in the Penn State vs. Insurance Company case. Two big stories, BOTH within 24 hours? After the story has been very quiet (in terms of new allegations) for a few years? That's a bit odd.

(2) Barron, after remaining pretty silent on all things Paterno during his 2 years as PSU President --- speaks out himself? That's a bit odd too. Why now?

Stepping back, there is A LOT of $$$ at stakes in regards to the Penn State vs. Insurance Company lawsuit. Something like $60,000,000!!! I think it's fairly clear that Penn State's strategy as regards people who made claims that they were victimized by Sandusky was: "unless it is easy to DIS-prove that this person was a victim, pay the $$$ because a protracted fight serves nobody. Paying the $$$ helps get the case off the books, and besides, we'll turn around and make our insurance company pay things."

That's not necessarily a moral strategy (there is an element of "fuck the insurance company."). But it is pragmatic, and arguably the best strategy.

Of course, the insurance company's reaction is "Fuck us?!?!? Yeah, well, fuck you, we're not paying." And (like Penn State on the other side), they're willing to play dirty in this fight. Lots of $$$ at stake! Penn State actually won the portion of the lawsuit as regards the claims on allegations from the 1970s and 1980s.

So, my current working theory on why things have flared up over the past few days:

(1) The insurance company knew they would likely lose this portion of the lawsuit. Read the ruling, it's actually a very straightforward reading of the insurance policies as they were worded from the 1970s/1980s. Paterno wasn't a trustee or director or shareholder: if and only if those sort of folk knew about what Sandusky was doing would the policy go void.

(2) The insurance company had pre-leaked the stories to the press in advance of the ruling. Remember, the insurance company would have access to the depositions. They know what's in there. Their goal is to embarrass PSU in the press, and a shot at muddying the waters (in the inevitable appeal) as regards the actual ruling.

(3) The stories get published once the insurance company actually loses.

(4) Now Penn State is on the defense again, and in a position they have to strongly refute the stories. LOTS of $$$ at stake here.

Barron's letter is mostly about $$$. It's not really about Paterno. That said, Barron is a politician and a portion of his "constituency" are JoeBots: he threw them a bit of a bone by mentioning Joe.

Who knows. But following the $ is usually a good idea, and there's a TON of $ at stake as regards that lawsuit.

As for whether the CNN/NBC stories are true? IMO: CNN considerably more likely vs. the NBC story. But honestly, I'm kind of indifferent on their validity. Their validity/invalidity simply doesn't matter too much bigger picture.

Those 3 things aren't odd at all. Likely all 3 had inside info. The news were waiting for court to drop something they could cite in public record. Barron's hand forced by the news.
 
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And here is something else to think about. In those 5 years since JoePed was canned and the others indicted we've seen a huge growth in groups supporting the Paterno's. Well organized, motivated and aggressively trying to create momentum and craft a narrative. Your theory is that this group only represents the views of maybe 10% of the overall PSU population (alum, community, fans, etc...). If the other 90% of the PSU population (alum, community, fans, etc...) is sane and doesn't subscribe to the same cultish beliefs why are they not completely embarrassed by what the 10% is doing and motivated to change things by establishing some counter organization that is more in alignment with the rest of the world? How come we haven't seen anything even close to that?

Dont forget the thousands of students that gathered on the footsteps to chant Paterno and 409 after the NCAA chickened out either.
Wish i had saved some of those videos. That was the proof for me that it's an institutionally wide pandemic/cult.
 
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Got it --- it's MY fault.

The alumni Board of Trustee members don't have that much power. The adults are still in charge. And they will remain in charge. Big picture, PS4RS is irrelevant and I don't NEED to "get involved" from my home here in Northern Kentucky (I don't exactly live that close to State College to "be involved.")

Besides, I'm a member of my local alumni chapter, I recruit for the school locally, and I've made a concerted effort to go to a bunch of ROAD football games in the post-November 2011 era to show non Penn State folk MY face of Penn State.

So, I think you're completely full of [Mark May] when you somehow insinuate this is MY fault. I DO do my part. Screw you for insinuating otherwise.

If you're up for it, I'll bet $1000 to $10 right now that there is NO "honor Joe" day in 2016 at Penn State. And neither will there be one in 2017, or 2018, or 2019, .........

It's unfortunate your tone had to turn nasty. The "you're" was really a general word for these supposed 'sane' PSU people. Let's be clear though, you (actually you this time) are here to change 'hearts and minds' about the perceived state of the Penn State community and it's overall reverence for dear old JoePed. Newsflash - it's really not working. I live around and amongst PSU's largest concentration of alumni and fans in the world - and you are 500 miles away pretty much disconnected from that cesspool. You know, the ones you keep telling us is full of really great people that are ready to move on and don't care about Paterno. I've seen and heard enough in the last 5 years and these additional data points such as the survey, election results and press releases only confirm what I already suspected - the vast majority of people associated with Penn State, either alumni, fans, supporters, etc... feel Paterno was either framed, didn't know anything or did everything 'legally required' by law. The last one technically being correct but morally bankrupt when taken into context given his 61 years service and billion dollar fundraising status. The rest of the world formed an opinion and has moved on and you can't change hearts and minds 5 years after the fact.

Put the bet in and make payable to BP. If I was you I'd really think about lowering that value. I think you are letting your pride get the best of you here
 
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Yeah --- so this survey (which as I look more closely, was not actually commissioned by the Penn State Alumni Association itself but another group, FWIW) --- there isn't even a hint of statistical rigor to the results.

http://psaaforall.org/2016/04/2016-psaaforall-survey-alumni-friends-penn-state/

You do not need to be an alumnus to participate in this survey, although we ask that you only take the survey once. The results will be reported at the Alumni Council meeting April 14-15th, 2016 at University Park.

(1) "No need to be an alumnus." (2) "we ask that you only take the survey once." (3) Only 486 people took the survey anyway. For all we know, 9fold voted 409 times!

Anyway: I think the flaws are obvious in referencing that 91% number as any sort of "fact."
If you are going to explore those details why don't you give all the facts. The Alum Assoc. was, until very recently, at odds with the cult over many things including BOT representation, honoring JoePed, Freeh. And then all of sudden they get off the fence and start supporting the most radical ideas such as pushing for an honor day. So what caused that? Maybe a realization that their grassroots members support this and other ideas such as dismissing Freeh.

Also you have no credible data to prove the survey was compromised by fraud or overly motivated voters, so in the absence of that the results stand on their own merit. That's how things work. As I said before it's like the elections. Oldsey, Brown and Doran all won by wide margins. People don't get to say that the only reason they won is apathy. That's a lazy bullshit excuse. We accept results and move on because it's a bottom line process. And if people want to change the results they do in the next cycle - which has not happened and will not happen.
 
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If you are going to explore those details why don't you give all the facts. The Alum Assoc. was, until very recently, at odds with the cult over many things including BOT representation, honoring JoePed, Freeh. And then all of sudden they get off the fence and start supporting the most radical ideas such as pushing for an honor day. So what caused that? Maybe a realization that their grassroots members support this and other ideas such as dismissing Freeh.

Also you have no credible data to prove the survey was compromised by fraud or overly motivated voters, so in the absence of that the results stand on their own merit. That's how things work. As I said before it's like the elections. Oldsey, Brown and Doran all won by wide margins. People don't get to say that the only reason they won is apathy. That's a lazy bull[Mark May] excuse. We accept results and move on because it's a bottom line process. And if people want to change the results they do in the next cycle - which has not happened and will not happen.
That survey seems pretty compromised. I wouldn't get all that involved in it. There are plenty of other reasons to understand the cult mentality there, but that "survey", with few respondents, with no controls, and from that source, is pretty weak sauce.
 
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That survey seems pretty compromised. I wouldn't get all that involved in it. There are plenty of other reasons to understand the cult mentality there, but that "survey", with few respondents, with no controls, and from that source, is pretty weak sauce.
Again, it's just another data point to consider. Every survey ever done has issues. There's never been a perfect one created.

Also Post 20177. It's not one year it's 6 surveys and the same question over 5 years
 
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