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- Thread starter mercer_buckeye
- Start date
ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
One of them might be, but there's no fucking way both came from the same father. I just wonder how fucking fat was the Paterno's mailman/pool boy/gardener in the late 60s.
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Joe Pa Thetic
Heisman
Well, the Cult had over 40 years of Joesus himself playing the perpetual victim and claiming that every everyone from other programs to the voters was out to get Penn St. If you have not seen the "Nixon's National Champs" episode of the 30 For 30 series, you should check it out. The episode is about the 1969 national title chase. Penn St. could have played number one Texas in the Cotton Bowl that year, but chose to play Missouri in the Orange Bowl instead. Joesus ducked the No. 1 team in the country that year, then whined that Nixon could "Shove It" for not endorsing the team that ran from the match up with No. 1 Texas.
Joesus also preached to the Cult for decades that every other program was cheating. This is the same guy who vowed not to retire because doing so would leave the game to the Barry Switzers and Jackie Sherrills of the world.
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ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
Even before the scandal hit and I thought Paterno was just a sanctimonious asshole instead of an evil maggot, I still would have chosen to have a beer with Barry Switzer any day of the week over Paterno.
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tsteele316
Mr. Such and Such
You don't have a beer with joepa. You have a glass of daego red that he tells you is an aged chianti, but is just Carlo Rossi paisano.
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Zurp
I have misplaced my pants.
Not me. I bought into the "JoePa is a great guy" garbage hook, line, and sinker. Yeah, it was a little scummy of him to whine about the officials or chase them down. And I never felt that it was my number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 favorite moments of all time that I got to spend an afternoon watching a football team coached by him. But I respected the guy for having high graduation rates (what a joke that turned out to be), and for sticking with one program despite countless offers to move on or retire (again, huge joke). When Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno were racing for the all-time wins total, I was rooting for Joe Paterno. I wasn't going to root for a scum-turd like Bowden.
When the shit hit the fan at Ohio State in early 2011 and into the summer, Paterno said something about how he had sympathy for Tressel and Ohio State, and how he hoped no one would look into Penn State so much (or something to that effect). It seemed like he agreed that no one should have to babysit his team as much as people thought Ohio State should have to.
Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious that I was way wrong on a lot of things about Paterno.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Can't believe that I'm saying this. I'll count on the Jurist Doctorates on BP to sort this out, but Sandusky was tried and convicted in a state court, right? Ergo it is the state, not the NCAA, which has the obligation and responsibility to bring charges and judge if other state employees are complicit in Sandusky's behavior and to punish or exonerate them accordingly. Therefore it is up to the state to impose a penalty of $60M, not the NCAA. It is up to the state, not the NCAA, to place judgement, sanctions and penalties based on what state employees did or failed to do in the case investigated.
Penn State, being a member of the NCAA, has agreed to be judged and sanctioned according to NCAA rules. But does that give the NCAA the right to investigate a criminal charge of child molestation and to impose penalties and sanctions based on that investigation? ie, in the eyes of the cult the NCAA overstepped it's boundaries regrading Joesus and the Golden Fleece of 409, denying bowl participation and scholarship limits before the remaining cases were brought to trial and guilt or innocence established.
If the case is made that NCAA did overstep its boundaries, then wouldn't Penn State and the Paternos have the right to sue for damages? Wouldn't Ohio State and other schools to include SMU, have the right to sue to recover damages and to claim voided victories? Couldn't the Tatgate seven claim that they were unfairly punished because of the criminal investigation of a tattoo parlor owner? ie whatever contract the member schools and athletes have signed with the NCAA isn't worth the paper it's printed on because outside of what happens on the field, or during recruiting, the NCAA has no power in criminal investigations/trials whatsoever.
As heinous as the crime and failure of Penn State's "responsible" people to act in a responsible manner, as frustrating as it is to wait as this case winds its way through the legal process, I have to agree with the Whackos that the right and responsibility to investigate, bring charges and try the university, the administration, the athletic department and coaches in a criminal case rests with the state and possibly with the federal courts, not the NCAA. For the NCAA to place sanctions and penalties BEFORE the school, the athletic department and the coaches are tried seems to my untrained legal eyes to be overstepping that boundary. It may also be the reason the NCAA has been so timid in the case of Jameis Winston.
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ORD_Buckeye
Wrong glass, Sir.
In a nutshell, I don't think the NCAA sanctions were explicitly in relation to the criminal charges but rather Paterno's role and outsized influence in the cover up. That along with the other aspects of how he ran that athletic department coming to light all screamed LOIC.
The NCAA sanctions weren't predicated on anything criminal but rather the findings of the Freeh Report on how PSU was being run under Paterno and his toadies of which the coverup was the major, but not sole, damning finding.
The NCAA sanctions weren't predicated on anything criminal but rather the findings of the Freeh Report on how PSU was being run under Paterno and his toadies of which the coverup was the major, but not sole, damning finding.
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cincibuck
You kids stay off my lawn!
Just seeking answers here. Since I'm not apt to be on the jury, I agree that Joe sure as hell looks complicit. The others are going to be tried soon. The jury will decide if there was a cover-up to a criminal case. But who decides if there was a LOIC? I guess the AAU and the accrediting region they belong to have some level of jurisdiction and could do major damage to the school's ability to function at it's current academic level. It just seems to me that football is something tangential to the case. Yes, there is cause for concern, but isn't the fact that it involves administration and a football coach coincidental and therefore not the prerogative of the NCAA to rule on?
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This is the crux of the issue.
NCAA penalized Penn State for gaining an unfair competitive advantage. NCAA's original penalties were handed down on the basis that the Athletic Department (not just Paterno) covered up the crime because it would've hurt their program's reputation etc.; not that Sandusky raped boys. This is why wins were vacated between McQueary informing Paterno and 2011. Because in that time period, Penn State had an unfair advantage.
It's a rather nuanced way to arrive at an unfair competitive advantage, and Corman basically argued that the NCAA themselves didn't believe this train of thought and were thus stepping outside their bounds. Personally I think it's a reasonable conclusion.
Ohio State, USC, SMU, Miami, et. al. were clearcut NCAA violations. Miami got off the hook because the NCAA used some "innovative" techniques to acquire evidence and opened themselves up to a lawsuit. Miami also clearly established that private schools have a major advantage. There is no FOIA for private schools, making it significantly harder (almost impossible) for NCAA to investigate them. NCAA only knows what the private schools tell them.
The Paternos will obviously sue anyone for anything, but I have a feeling this works as well as the one that tried suing Penn State for not giving him the Head Coach job.
NCAA sanctions were never a criminal case, however. Other than Sandusky being convicted (there was indeed rape), and proving that the Athletic Department was aware (Freeh report) is all that's needed for NCAA. McQueary's knowledge alone is sufficient, don't even need to demonstrate that anyone else was aware.
Rules are also different for criminal court and internal proceedings... there's no connection there. It's a red herring from the very beginning to equate NCAA sanctions as trying to replace criminal proceedings.
Penn State chooses to be a member of the NCAA; nobody compels them to agree to NCAA rules and punishment.
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scarletmike
Researching the Magic!
Plus there's the whole issue of Penn St. not even having a compliance office for the athletic dept, and certainly nothing involving football went past Joe. That alone should have been enough to hammer them, and that seems to get forgotten rather quickly by a lot of people.
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