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Pac 10 Overrated?

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Wasn't their some talk early in this thread regarding how tough fresno State was and the credit Oregon should get for playing them?


Just wondering if everyone feels the same regarding Fresno's stoutness after they lost to freakin Nevada.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
Wasn't their some talk early in this thread regarding how tough fresno State was and the credit Oregon should get for playing them?


Just wondering if everyone feels the same regarding Fresno's stoutness after they lost to freakin Nevada.
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Don't worry...now the media will just switch to how great the Pac 10 MUST be since 5-6 Stanford just took that vaunted Rockne-like Notre Dame squad for the ages down to the wire...
 
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Yeah, I think we can all see the spin coming. Notre Dame didn't squeak by a weak team, they showed grit and determination in fighting off a Stanford team who played the game of their lives. God, if I have to hear any more bullshit about how great the drunken leprechauns are I'm going to puke blood.
 
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Fuck Oregon. If OSU scheduled a 1aa team like Montana instead of Texas we'd be 10-1 just like they are this wouldn't even be an issue. If Oregon sacked up and played a top caliber non conference opponent they'd be 9-2 and wallowing in mediocrity ~20ish in the polls where they belong. We're ranked ahead of the ugly ducklings in every human poll and the BCS, tough shit for them.

As for the Pac-10, fight on USC and fuck the rest of them, I don't give a damn what those teams out west do as long as USC takes out UCLA and punches our ticket to the BCS.
 
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O'Rourke said:
Fuck Oregon. If OSU scheduled a 1aa team like Montana instead of Texas we'd be 10-1 just like they are this wouldn't even be an issue. If Oregon sacked up and played a top caliber non conference opponent they'd be 9-2 and wallowing in mediocrity ~20ish in the polls where they belong. We're ranked ahead of the ugly ducklings in every human poll and the BCS, tough shit for them.

As for the Pac-10, fight on USC and fuck the rest of them, I don't give a damn what those teams out west do as long as USC takes out UCLA and punches our ticket to the BCS.
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I have to say, this pretty much sums up 5 threads into a couple of colorfully worded sentences.
 
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In fairness to methomps, who is a longstanding and very respected BP poster, the power ratings indicate that the PAC 10 is the second toughest conference, although all of the power ratings suggest that the Big Ten is a full five or six points more powerful than the PAC 10 this year and we saw that in the Big Ten's OOC success.

Nevertheless, some of the assertions made in this thread about Fresno State really need to be addressed factually.

There's nothing like results to help one state a case:
Oregon (home) 37 Fresno State 34
Nevada (home) 38 Fresno State 35

Given the way that arguments have been made here in favor of Oregon deserving a BCS bowl, Oregon=Nevada? I don't think so, but let's be fair about their comparative schedule, which reflects on whether the PAC is overrated.

Nevada is ranked #81 in the new Sagarin's (below 6 MAC teams)

Illinois is ranked #88, Indiana #64

Fresno State played the #91st toughest schedule that was equivalent to playing a team every week of the calibre of...

Bowling Green, Air Force, Army, Nevada, Wyoming, Washington, Oklahoma State, Akron, Texas State, SMU, Illinois.


...and this is the tough OOC team on Oregon's schedule?

A win over Fresno State is just a win over a typical mid-major. It's not a win over Texas and its no more meaningful than a win over Miami(Ohio)
 
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where is Methomps? where is that bullshit Fresno=Texas argument now?

it sucks when you think you have top pair and go all in; and then lose your ass when the other guy has the nuts and flops a flush...

Go BUCKS! bring on the Irish. we're gonna fuck that Dome up.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
yes. in any given season. Fresno and Miami are mid majors. there's no way to deny it. just because Fresno is having a relatively good season, and Miami is having a relatively bad one doesn't change the fact that you are trying to equate FUCKING FRESNO STATE with one the TOP FIVE ALL TIME PROGRAMS.
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Putting aside the small detail that I never compared Fresno to Texas, by what standard is Texas a top five program?


lvbuckeye said:
are you REALLY that big of a homer? do you REALLY think that they compare? my respect for your opinon is dropping like the Hindenburg...
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Oregon followed the same script tOSU did. That includes one tough game. As has been stated over and over by many of you in the thread this discussion was originally a part of, Oregon as a program is not on the level that tOSU is. Given that you guys recognize this disparity and go through considerable trouble to compile stats and anecdotes reinforcing this concept, I am mildly amused that you fail to recognize that a tough game for Oregon does not necessarily equal a tough game for tOSU.

For tOSU, Texas is a well-matched opponent. Both teams are national title contenders and both are upper-echelon. Oregon was not on tOSU's level coming into the year. When was the last time they were ranked for a stretch longer than two or three weeks? 2002?

So why do you hold that they have to play a team of the caliber of Texas in order to have a tough game on their schedule? Fresno State is a much better match. I don't know if this tidbit has made it back east yet, but Fresno has a pretty solid reputation as a BCS-killer. Colorado 2001 (10-3 that year), GaTech 2002 (7-6), Oregon State 2003 (8-5), and Virginia 2004 (8-4) are all BCS teams with winning records that Fresno has beaten recently. With all due respect to Miami(OH), the Redhawks don't have anywhere close to that kind of resume.

As an aside, I cannot express my amusement at coming home and finding that I had started a thread entitled "Pac10 overrated?"
 
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methomps said:
Putting aside the small detail that I never compared Fresno to Texas, by what standard is Texas a top five program?
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you have been vBitchslapped.
all time winning percentage through 2004:

1 Michigan 0.74588 842 275 36 1153
2 Notre Dame 0.74345 802 263 42 1107
3 Texas 0.71372 790 307 33 1130
4 Oklahoma 0.71159 747 287 53 1087
5 Alabama 0.71022 764 299 43 1106
6 Ohio State 0.70852 764 299 52 1115
7 Nebraska 0.70696 793 317 40 1150
8 Tennessee 0.69715 754 312 55 1121
9 Southern Cal 0.69683 720 298 54 1072
10 Penn State 0.68509 760 338 42 1140

Methomps said:
Oregon followed the same script tOSU did.
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nope... not even close. Fresno is a mid major. the fact that they are decent this year is irrelevant. what IS relevant is the fact that Texas is an ALL TIME POWER. the fact that the you are even using 'Fresno is a tough game' as your defense is indicitive of the WEAKNESS of your arguement. and the Ducks schedule... if the toughest OOC opponent on Oregon's schedule can't even win the fucking WAC, i'm pretty sure they're not a very tough opponent... kinda like Boise State going in between the hedges early this year, and getting shellacked by the Dawgs... if Fresno is a tough opponent for the Ducks, then the Ducks don't deserve a BCS bid...
Methomps said:
That includes one tough game.
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i'll give you Michigan a couple years ago... hell, i'm feeling nice so i'll even give you our doormat Indiana, BUT NOT FRESNO. by your logic, we scheduled TWO tough games, because Miami was pretty damn good a couple years ago... please. mid majors are mid majors.
Methomps said:
As has been stated over and over by many of you in the thread this discussion was originally a part of, Oregon as a program is not on the level that tOSU is. Given that you guys recognize this disparity and go through considerable trouble to compile stats and anecdotes reinforcing this concept, I am mildly amused that you fail to recognize that a tough game for Oregon does not necessarily equal a tough game for tOSU.
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yet, by virtue of a win against a team that admittedly would not be a 'tough game' for Ohio State, you think that the Ducks are somehow more worthy? does not your argument fly straight into the face of the Ducks somehow stacking up favorably when determining BCS worthiness?
(you just shot yourself down, dude.)

Methomps said:
For tOSU, Texas is a well-matched opponent. Both teams are national title contenders and both are upper-echelon. Oregon was not on tOSU's level coming into the year. When was the last time they were ranked for a stretch longer than two or three weeks? 2002?
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ahh... once again, you admit that Oregon is not the same caliber as Ohio State... they play 'tough games' against weak teams, yet we are supposed to respect a record that has been artificially inflated by said games... a-ha!

Methomps said:
So why do you hold that they have to play a team of the caliber of Texas in order to have a tough game on their schedule? Fresno State is a much better match. I don't know if this tidbit has made it back east yet, but Fresno has a pretty solid reputation as a BCS-killer. Colorado 2001 (10-3 that year), GaTech 2002 (7-6), Oregon State 2003 (8-5), and Virginia 2004 (8-4) are all BCS teams with winning records that Fresno has beaten recently. With all due respect to Miami(OH), the Redhawks don't have anywhere close to that kind of resume.
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i never said that Oregon needed to schedule Texas. but to state, as you did, that Oregon followed the same formula of one tough game and two patsies as Ohio State is a fallacy, due to your own admission that Oregon isn't in the same league... once again, if Fresno is Oregon's tough game, then they shouldn't even be getting a whisper about BCS bids...


BTW, those same 'BCS killers' walked out of the 'Shoe in '00 with a 45-14 loss...
concerning Miami, i'm pretty sure that running off 13 straight wins and finishing the season in the top 10 in '03 trumps your card... Miami went undefeated in the MAC, which is better than the WAC, and you cannnot deny that... Fresno can't even win their own conference... yet they are a 'tough' 'giant killer' :shake:
Methomps said:
As an aside, I cannot express my amusement at coming home and finding that I had started a thread entitled "Pac10 overrated?"
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you didn't start it, and we all know it... it was split off of the BCS chances thread...

BTW, i'm not 'back east.' i live in Las Vegas, and i am well aware of Fresno's reputation... i've said it before and i'll say it again: i like Pat Hill, i think he's a fine coach, and i think he's building a pretty nice program up there in the Valley, BUT right now, Fresno is a mid major, nothing more. something like Florida State in Bowden's early years. they'll play anyone anywhere, and they'll never quit, and eventually they might be quite a force in the College Football landscape, BUT NOT NOW.

one last little tidbit... if good mid major, who controls their own destiny, yet cannot win their conference title is a 'tough game' for the second place Pac ten team, then the Pac Ten is indeed, overrated...
 
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methomps said:
Oregon was not on tOSU's level coming into the year. When was the last time they were ranked for a stretch longer than two or three weeks? 2002?
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They were ranked for 3 straight weeks in September, 2003, when they started 4-0 including the win against scUM.

In 2002 they were ranked from the preseason until mid-November.
 
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lvbuckeye said:
you have been vBitchslapped.
all time winning percentage through 2004:

1 Michigan 0.74588 842 275 36 1153
2 Notre Dame 0.74345 802 263 42 1107
3 Texas 0.71372 790 307 33 1130
4 Oklahoma 0.71159 747 287 53 1087
5 Alabama 0.71022 764 299 43 1106
6 Ohio State 0.70852 764 299 52 1115
7 Nebraska 0.70696 793 317 40 1150
8 Tennessee 0.69715 754 312 55 1121
9 Southern Cal 0.69683 720 298 54 1072
10 Penn State 0.68509 760 338 42 1140
Click to expand...

I see this argument means enough to you that you use a standard by which Michigan is the #1 program of all-time. Let's see what the friendly people at Bucknuts think.

lvbuckeye said:
yet, by virtue of a win against a team that admittedly would not be a 'tough game' for Ohio State, you think that the Ducks are somehow more worthy? does not your argument fly straight into the face of the Ducks somehow stacking up favorably when determining BCS worthiness?
(you just shot yourself down, dude.)
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Once again, your emotional investment in this situation is causing you to misinterpret my argument. I have never argued that Oregon deserves a BCS bid over Ohio State. I don't even believe that position to be true. One poster said that Oregon had no business being in a BCS game because of their 'cowardly' scheduling practices. That is the statement I disagreed with.

I argued that their scheduling formula was not cowardly because it mirrored tOSU's RELATIVE TO OREGON's STATURE. Fresno State is a tough game for Oregon. They are 9-6 against BCS competition since 2001, so they are not just some mid-major. Ohio State deserves a BCS bid. Oregon deserves a BCS bid. The two positions are not mutually exclusive.


lvbuckeye said:
BTW, those same 'BCS killers' walked out of the 'Shoe in '00 with a 45-14 loss...
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The last time Oregon played the 'ALL TIME POWER' Texas, Oregon won.
 
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