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OSU Men's Basketball Recruiting/Projections/General Discussions

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wigmon said:
Rivals and ESPN list LeDee at 6'9". OSU listed Young at 6'8".

We most definitely need 2 PGs in these 2 classes (my assumption is that Muhammad and Washington are better suited for the 2 and not well utilized as PGs which is why we are looking at so many PG options). It would be best if we got 1 this year and 1 next. And if one of those was a transfer with only a couple of years of eligibility, could still take Penn in '20.
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i've seen what some sites have listed ledee's height as. i don't at all think he's 6'9". my guess is he's 6'7" to 6'8". as far as young goes, well, kaleb is listed at 6'9" and young is a good 2 inches shorter. sure, some teams are fine with their tallest player(s) being 6'9", but call me conventional in wanting at least one player who's truly a tree. more importantly, if we have "short" frontcourt players, i'd prefer it if they play over their heights. take kbd, for example. potter and kaleb, however, play shorter than their heights. potter reminds me too much of kyle madsen.

as far as the point guard position goes, i agree that we definitely need two, with one being a grad transfer and the other being a 2019 recruit or a conventional transfer (e.g., cj walker). otherwise, i would not agree that we need two point guards whereby both would be on the roster for 2019 (and 2020).
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
i've seen what some sites have listed ledee's height as. i don't at all think he's 6'9". my guess is he's 6'7" to 6'8". as far as young goes, well, kaleb is listed at 6'9" and young is a good 2 inches shorter. sure, some teams are fine with their tallest player(s) being 6'9", but call me conventional in wanting at least one player who's truly a tree. more importantly, if we have "short" frontcourt players, i'd prefer it if they play over their heights. take kbd, for example. potter and kaleb, however, play shorter than their heights. potter reminds me too much of kyle madsen.

as far as the point guard position goes, i agree that we definitely need two, with one being a grad transfer and the other being a 2019 recruit or a conventional transfer (e.g., cj walker). otherwise, i would not agree that we need two point guards whereby both would be on the roster for 2019 (and 2020).
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Ledee was measured at a camp heading into his soph year at 6'8", so growing an inch to 6'9" in 2+ years doesn't appear to be a stretch. Tough to compare 2 guys height even when standing next to each other (camera angle/slouching). I don't recall a single OSU player that measured smaller at the NBA combine (in shoes) than he was listed in the program so I have no reason to doubt that listed height. And just to make a point on something that is a pet peeve of mine, height doesn't mean a whole lot in basketball. Standing reach and wingspan are much more critical measurements.

Villanova just won a national title with a front court of 6'8" and 6'7" and often played without anyone taller than 6'7" on the floor. I believe the difference was athleticism (across the board) and toughness, not height. Potter and Kaleb do play smaller because they aren't very athletic. LeDee and Young are pretty athletic.

To be clear though, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing that we couldn't use a rim protector/more athletic center. I was just stating the listed heights for 2 players. And while I think it would be good to add one of those guys, I think guards are the bigger priority.

On the point guard recruiting, it all depends on whether you think Washington or Muhammad are good enough to play the point (not just spot duty, but able to take over that position if the main PG is in foul trouble). I don't believe they are now or will be for at least a couple of years if ever. I firmly believe we need to add 2 PG's that will be able to play in '19 and if one of them spills over into '20 (like Walker), thats OK. I think with the number of PG's the staff is looking at, they are in that same mind set.
 
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watched some tape of cremo. so, umm, yeah... he's definitely the grad transfer i want. no doubt about it.

sure, he's not a point guard, but he can handle the ball and dish. extremely savvy scorer and a consistent shooter. ambidextrous. fast-twitch 3-point shot that's good out to 25 feet. in height and style, dare i say a bit like divincenzo, though slightly less physical. don't care that there would be no true point guard between jackson, muhammad, washington, and cremo. there is nothing wrong with 2 combo guards as your backcourt; however, you'd certainly like to have at least one press-breaker who has a calm hand with under 2 to go.

the concern cremo would have about osu is the probability of an ncaa tournament bid. he's transferring because (1) he wants ample playing time at a "name" program and because (2) he wants to play in march. we can give him (1). as far as (2) goes, well, that's less certain.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
watched some tape of cremo. so, umm, yeah... he's definitely the grad transfer i want. no doubt about it.

sure, he's not a point guard, but he can handle the ball and dish. extremely savvy scorer and a consistent shooter. ambidextrous. fast-twitch 3-point shot that's good out to 25 feet. in height and style, dare i say a bit like divincenzo, though slightly less physical. don't care that there would be no true point guard between jackson, muhammad, washington, and cremo. there is nothing wrong with 2 combo guards as your backcourt; however, you'd certainly like to have at least one press-breaker who has a calm hand with under 2 to go.

the concern cremo would have about osu is the probability of an ncaa tournament bid. he's transferring because (1) he wants ample playing time at a "name" program and because (2) he wants to play in march. we can give him (1). as far as (2) goes, well, that's less certain.
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Concern about making the tournament? If he believes in himself and Coach Holt, he should not have that concern. Coming to OSU would in a way be like betting on himself as far as making the tourney - if he picks OSU and is a legit B1G starter, then OSU on paper certainly would look like a tourney team in my book. I do not quite get the level of pessimism I am seeing from some fans about OSU making the tourney. They are for sure adding st least one grad transfer so you might as well say they are adding five new players, at least four who have solid talent and should be contributing and in the playing group. Plus guys like Young and Jallow could see a larger role and contribute more. They lose 3 talented players. The odds aren't very good that everyone other than CJ and Kaleb will disappoint. Just having 4 guys average double-digit points will be enough for them to be able to get back to the tourney with this group, IMO. If they hit on the grad transfer, that means just one freshman has to produce at a high level and two or three others being solid complementary players will be sufficient.
 
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Cremo is the wing scorer, high volume, high percentage 3 pt shooter (and an able passer) that this team needs next season. Right now, I dunno if we can field a functional offense with just CJ and Kaleb as proven scorers. This is where pessimism comes about us making the Dance next season. Add Cremo and all that changes. All 3 of him, CJ, and Kaleb would need to stay healthy and play lots of minutes, but suddenly you have enough pieces to run an effective enough offense. I am confident we will be a good defensive team next season. CJ, Muhammad, Cremo, Kaleb... and whichever one of Andre, Young, or Ledee is playing best at the 4, I mean, Cremo is just one guy but it feels like a world of difference in expectations for that starting line-up versus the alternative.
 
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DZ83CK said:
Concern about making the tournament?
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yes. perhaps you should do some research and read what he's looking for. cremo has specifically stated that he's looking for a team that will make the tournament.

I do not quite get the level of pessimism I am seeing from some fans about OSU making the tourney.
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are you really not aware what we're losing? we're losing the big ten player of the year. we're also losing a multi-year do-everything starter. and we're also losing our best 3-point shooter. we return not a single scoring threat on the wing. we're losing 54% of our scoring, 46% of our rebounding, and a ton of experience.

Plus guys like Young and Jallow could see a larger role and contribute more. They lose 3 talented players. The odds aren't very good that everyone other than CJ and Kaleb will disappoint. Just having 4 guys average double-digit points will be enough for them to be able to get back to the tourney with this group, IMO. If they hit on the grad transfer, that means just one freshman has to produce at a high level and two or three others being solid complementary players will be sufficient.
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all of that sounds peachy keen. but you're completely missing my point. reread what i said. what i said is that it's less certain that we'll be a tournament team than it is that we'll have ample playing time for him. how in the world could anyone disagree with that? i didn't say that we can't or won't be a tournament team. however, what i am saying is that it's anything but a foregone conclusion given what we're losing.

the good thing for us is that we'll be in the same boat as many other teams competing for cremo. not all others appear to be surefire tournament teams as of right now. wvu, cincy, and louisville look to be, but the latter has the looming threat of sanctions.

anyway, i think you need to step back and look at how others are seeing osu next year. our fans can manufacture a whole host of biased reasons for a rosy outlook. cremo is not an osu fan, though. he is making a business decision.
 
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nomatta said:
I mean, Cremo is just one guy but it feels like a world of difference in expectations for that starting line-up versus the alternative.
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absolutely. this is why i want him more than anyone else. and telling cremo that he can be the difference is probably the spiel that ho1tmann will pitch this week. coach can spin the uncertainty of our tournament chances (along with, of course, our vacancies at the 2 and 3) as a positive for a player who wishes to be "the man" for a power 5 team. our uncertainty is both a good and a bad thing. cremo wants to be more than just casually optimistic about his team playing in the tournament. but i'm sure he also has the dream of turning uncertainty into certainty. no other prospective destination offers him what osu does, which is non-existent returning competition for the role he wants to fill. without returning competition, cremo's success at osu would be fully on him.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
yes. perhaps you should do some research and read what he's looking for. cremo has specifically stated that he's looking for a team that will make the tournament.


are you really not aware what we're losing?


all of that sounds peachy keen. but you're completely missing my point. reread what i said. what i said is that it's less certain that we'll be a tournament team than it is that we'll have ample playing time for him. how in the world could anyone disagree with that? i didn't say that we can't or won't be a tournament team. however, what i am saying is that it's anything but a foregone conclusion given what we're losing.

the good thing for us is that we'll be in the same boat as many other teams competing for cremo. not all others appear to be surefire tournament teams as of right now. wvu, cincy, and louisville look to be, but the latter has the looming threat of sanctions.

anyway, i think you need to step back and look at how others are seeing ...
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I wasn't directing my post at you in particular. But since you responded ...

Perhaps you should do a ton more research on other college basketball programs, or give them equal time in your critical analysis. Your intense focus on OSU makes you acutely aware of negative points, while you exhibit none of the same critical thinking towards other programs who also lose great players, and have worse replacements coming in.

The reality of college basketball is OSU is a top-25 program in this sport historically. Why assume they are likely to have a down year when CH & co proved everyone wrong last year? Why do you want to set yourself up for making the same mistake and being pessimistic without knowing all the facts? And all due respect, you do not know how much a true CH recruiting class will have on the program. Again, not saying you in particular don't believe, but I know there are some pessimistic posters out there.

Yes, the roster changes, but take a peek at all the talent other good programs lose. OSU does not exist in a vacuum. OSU can be a worse team and still easily make the tournament - a 5 is a top-20 team, and I really doubt there will be a net loss of 20 programs leaping over OSU.

It is funny you seem to think WVU, UC and UL are obviously in a better position to win next year. Literally all of those programs are losing multiple key players if you count the early entries. UL didn't even make the tournament last year and is in jeopardy of another postseason ban, so I would never go there now if the NCAA tourney is what I really want. WVU lost by far their best player in Carter and also a great sidekick starter Miles. UC lost their best player, and arguably their top 3 players if Evans stays in the draft, which seems likely. None of those programs are perfect for a transfer like Cremo to be guaranteed to make the tournament, IMO. If a team is already possessing a roster that is a lock for the tournament on paper, he would probably be coming off the bench for them anyway.
 
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OSU_Buckguy said:
you really are missing the forest for the trees. what part of "osu's return to the tournament is less certain than the available playing time for a backcourt player"
do you not understand? do i need crayons to explain this to you?
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I take issue with people doubting they will make the tournament, period. Why start with skepticism? CJ is a returning starter who averaged over 10 ppg, Luther is a stud who has to start due to defense and energy, and Washington most likely will play a lot due to perimeter shooting skill. I am not seeing the crater of need and dire straits.
 
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DZ83CK said:
I take issue with people doubting they will make the tournament, period.
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i'm not doubting that they'll make the tournament. i'm just not assuming that it's a foregone conclusion. you do see the difference, don't you?

but, again, you're still missing the point. it's not about what you or i think. it's about cremo's possible perspective and the concerns that he has for any of his targets. he's publicly set two standards for his targets: 1) being in a power conference and 2) playing in the tournament. of course, available playing time is paramount.

do all the research you want. i can just about guarantee you that most unbiased people are giving wvu, cincy, lousville, and texas tech a greater chance of playing in next year's tournament. but i can also just about guarantee you that none of those teams have vacancies at the 2, 3, and 4.

I am not seeing the crater of need and dire straits.
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strawman.png
 
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