Once is Not Enough (from summer practice thread)

[BigJim]

How is it not so bad? It's always so bad when you're coming into a year off a NC game appearance and returning 19 starters. Why wouldn't I have expected more? But it didn't matter how many starters came back, the attitude in the '08 class was not right. Something was amiss. I don't see how that statement can be challenged?

People are taking what I have been saying and twisting every which way they want to. The simple point that I am making is that this class coming through has something already that the '08 class never had. A different attitude and personality that will drive them to successes that the '08 class could not achieve. That is it.

People can say I feel like I am owed something and get awarded for it but that doesn't change the fact that they are dead wrong.

That is exactly what is going on. I can almost guarantee they agree with you but are just not following the logic trail. Or maybe they follow it but are limiting their responses to that which has nothing to do with your point.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

How is it not so bad? It's always so bad when you're coming into a year off a NC game appearance and returning 19 starters. Why wouldn't I have expected more? But it didn't matter how many starters came back, the attitude in the '08 class was not right. Something was amiss. I don't see how that statement can be challenged?

It's not so bad because going 6-6 and getting shellacked by the likes of Illinois is far worse than losing to LSU in the NC game, or getting waxed by SC in LA. I don't think you have a full appreciation for how hard it is to get to the NC game, and I don't think you appreciate the fact that the 07 squad was the beneficiary of a weak schedule and was "lucky" to be there in the first place. That is to say, going in to 2007 no one had Ohio State penciled in to the NC game.

You're not only asking that OSU makes it to it's 3rd NC Game in a row, but that they win it. That's not your run of the mill tall order, that's gigantic. It's one thing to hope for it (as I would think we all did) it's quite another to expect it.

People are taking what I have been saying and twisting every which way they want to. The simple point that I am making is that this class coming through has something already that the '08 class never had. A different attitude and personality that will drive them to successes that the '08 class could not achieve. That is it.

And I agree that the 08 class seemed to have some "locker room problems" (not counting possible malcontent Juniors), but look back at your posts... I think you'll find your posts have gone quite far afield of simply discussing locker room quarrels and in to the territory of the appearance of complaining that your free lump of gold isn't big enough for you.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

That is exactly what is going on. I can almost guarantee they agree with you but are just not following the logic trail. Or maybe they follow it but are limiting their responses to that which has nothing to do with your point.

Sure about that?

lol, rag on me all you want, I just don't like losing and I'm never going to accept it or be okay with it when it's happening consistently. If you think that's bad then I don't know what to say. The main point is that I see something in this class that we didn't have the last few years.

Maybe last years class wasn't the only part of the Buckeye family missing the killer instinct? I'm glad our quarterback doesn't think like y'all do.

Ohio State might be a lot of things... a "consistent loser" isn't one of those things.

 

[Basebuck]

That is exactly what is going on. I can almost guarantee they agree with you but are just not following the logic trail. Or maybe they follow it but are limiting their responses to that which has nothing to do with your point.

I agree with you Jim. 2731 brings up some good points. Not sure how anyone has been happy with this particular class's big game success with the exception of Michigan.

To me, it's as simple as this: Under Tress the last 3 or 4 years, tOSU wins the games where they are more talented but lose the games against equal or better talent. Because Tressel's track record over a larger span suggests he is capable of winning the majority of games, something seems to be up with the type of players on those teams. They seem to shy away from that type of competition.

 

[DaddyBigBucks]

That is exactly what is going on. I can almost guarantee they agree with you but are just not following the logic trail. Or maybe they follow it but are limiting their responses to that which has nothing to do with your point.

Logic called. It's filing an injunction to prevent the use of its name with respect to this purely subjective argument.

 

[Meyer]

I've stated what my main point is. I respect everyone's opinion. I guess DaddyBigBucks feels like I'm questioning his authority when I am simply responding to his false claims about me. There isn't much more I can say or do because responding to this has gotten me in trouble. I think this has been a really good discussion, and I wish I could have it in person where I could put my main point across more clearly and not feel like my point is being lost. I love this place more than any other website and I am on here more than any other place, but I feel like my opinions are being suppressed right now instead of being respected. I am respecting everyone else's opinion here and trying to have a good discussion but am being penalized. And that is not whining, that is the truth. I'm not trying to get on anyone's bad side; in fact, that is the last thing I want. I just wanted to clarify my main point and defend the false claims against me.

 

[BB73]

I've stated what my main point is. I respect everyone's opinion. I guess DaddyBigBucks feels like I'm questioning his authority when I am simply responding to his false claims about me. There isn't much more I can say or do because responding to this has gotten me in trouble. I think this has been a really good discussion, and I wish I could have it in person where I could put my main point across more clearly and not feel like my point is being lost. I love this place more than any other website and I am on here more than any other place, but I feel like my opinions are being suppressed right now instead of being respected. I am respecting everyone else's opinion here and trying to have a good discussion but am being penalized. And that is not whining, that is the truth. I'm not trying to get on anyone's bad side; in fact, that is the last thing I want. I just wanted to clarify my main point and defend the false claims against me.

For someone who has stated that others are 'putting words' in his mouth, the first bolded statement seems like quite an assumption to me. FYI, DBB acted as a moderator and issued a warning because you broke a clear-cut rule of posting on BP. You weren't 'simply responding to false claims' - you were whining about being dinged.

What you apparently called 'being penalized' was a warning for complaining about negative reputation comments. Also, DBB issued a warning, rather than an infraction that accumulates points, so he cut you some slack.

Also as an FYI, 'Arguing with moderators' is another board rule. Just to be clear, I'm not saying you've done that yet, I'm just letting you and others know that it's something else to avoid. Allow me to clarify that somewhat. Debating the content/opinion within a post that happens to have been made by a moderator is fine - but arguing on the board about a decision made by a moderator/admin is what would constitute a violation. I'm really not trying to give you more grief here, I'm trying to clarify the way that works in order to help you and others avoid potential pitfalls in the future.

In other words, it's fine to debate the opinion posted by someone like myself or DBB or BKB in this thread, but to argue about a decision made regarding a board rule is not allowed. If you feel something unjust occurred via a moderator decision, handle it via PMs, rather than on the board.

You've posted your opinions on the topic. Some agree with much of what you say, others feel it's too negative. Opinions differ, that's going to happen, and some of the discussion in this thread has been fairly good.

But in my opinion (yes, this is my opinion - not any words I'm putting into anybody else's mouth, and not an action as a board moderator), there's been some whining and some portayal of oneself as a victim, and a lot of us around here will react strongly to that.

 

[Deety]

People are taking what I have been saying and twisting every which way they want to.

This sort of argument is what can happen when you're committed to defending a statement when maybe rephrasing it would have worked a little better.

This team has "it"; the other didn't.

vs.

This team has an intangible I don't think the other had.
​

The first sounds insulting; the second just sounds like an optimistic opinion. Subtle, but the second phrase gives credit while the first takes it away. Which way did you really mean it?

If you're arguing something you maybe didn't quite mean that way from the start, as looks to be the case, it might be okay to stand down.

And by the way, DBB's concern is the team. He isn't the power-tripping sort.

 

[muffler dragon]

I expected more from the '08 class in terms of big game wins.

Re-qualified statement on your part.

That is exactly what is going on. I can almost guarantee they agree with you but are just not following the logic trail. Or maybe they follow it but are limiting their responses to that which has nothing to do with your point.

Equine excrement.

Sure about that?

Ohio State might be a lot of things... a "consistent loser" isn't one of those things.

Damn right.

 

[Basebuck]

Another re-qualification of the initial statement.

It's interesting that 2731 and Base have both back-pedaled to re-qualifying the losses as "BIG GAME" losses. This sure is a helluva lot different than the initial portrayal.

Don't play the victim when the initial mistake is all on you.

What are you talking about? Your quote means nothing in regards to my initial stance on this subject. I have only been conceding that beating Michigan (even though they are down right now) is still a big win. No back pedal, just an acknoledgement that a rivalry like that is always a big game.

Once again, please go back through and pick out the orignal statement that I re-qualified.

 

[muffler dragon]

What are you talking about? Your quote means nothing in regards to my initial stance on this subject. I have only been conceding that beating Michigan (even though they are down right now) is still a big win. No back pedal, just an acknoledgement that a rivalry like that is always a big game.

Once again, please go back through and pick out the orignal statement that I re-qualified.

I stand corrected. For some reason, I had you in my mind when I was thinking about the posts by DaveyBoy.

My apologies, and I have edited my post to reflect the necessary change.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I stand corrected. For some reason, I had you in my mind when I was thinking about the posts by DaveyBoy.

My apologies, and I have edited my post to reflect the necessary change.

Just wanted to quote Muffler here to show some folks that it's OK to admit a mistake, and move on.

 

[BB73]

I agree with you Jim. 2731 brings up some good points. Not sure how anyone has been happy with this particular class's big game success with the exception of Michigan.

To me, it's as simple as this: Under Tress the last 3 or 4 years, tOSU wins the games where they are more talented but lose the games against equal or better talent. Because Tressel's track record over a larger span suggests he is capable of winning the majority of games, something seems to be up with the type of players on those teams. They seem to shy away from that type of competition.

I would just like to point out once again that the timeframe in the bolded statement above includes a pair of wins for tOSU in AP #1 vs AP #2 games during the 2006 season. Obviously it also includes the BCS Title Game losses and the game at USC last year.

Hopefully, this year's team beats USC and that negative trend in big games is reversed.

 

[Basebuck]

I stand corrected. For some reason, I had you in my mind when I was thinking about the posts by DaveyBoy.

My apologies, and I have edited my post to reflect the necessary change.

Not a problem, I had to go back through myself to make sure I hadn't said that. :tongue2: Thanks

I would just like to point out once again that the timeframe in the bolded statement above includes a pair of wins for tOSU in AP #1 vs AP #2 games during the 2006 season. Obviously it also includes the BCS Title Game losses and the game at USC last year.

Hopefully, this year's team beats USC and that negative trend in big games is reversed.

You are correct. I should have stuck with the 08 class comparisons. I point to a specific class because, to me, the team is identified by their upperclassmen/leadership which is where this argument started.

However, one could argue that neither Texas nor Michigan were as talented as that 06 tOSU team. That's pretty subjective though and I'm sure we could argue all day about matchups, etc.

 

[osugrad21]

Just wanted to quote Muffler here to show some folks that it's OK to admit a mistake, and move on.

Just wanted to quote BKB here to show some folks that it's OK to quote quotes that admit a mistake, and move on.