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Ohio State 68, Purdue 75 (Final)

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Everyone has already mentioned the officiating.

Purdue attacked the zone well with a big who could step out and shoot, and it seemed like it took us FOREVER to adjust and get out on him. They were also beating our full court really easily, that kinda worried me. The whole point of that pressure is to take time off the shot clock, and instead it was giving them open lanes and quick baskets.

Diebler couldn't buy a basket. I don't understand why he is so streaky.

I dont want to go so far as to call Turner a ball hog, but I feel like every time the ball comes to him on an offensive possession he feels like he has to shoot it. Especially when he drives into the lane, he NEVER kicks back out.

PJ Hill may be better than Butler defensively. He is so quick and pesky out there, and that save he made was a thing of beauty.

The Bucks never stopped fighting, and I was impressed. That being said, Matt Painter had to be the angriest man in the building. Your team up by like 9 with 1:12 left and your team is fouling on every possession? The Purdue players were trying to hand us the keys to the city, it just wasn't meant to be.
 
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BengalsAndBucks;1064945; said:
Diebler couldn't buy a basket. I don't understand why he is so streaky.

I dont want to go so far as to call Turner a ball hog, but I feel like every time the ball comes to him on an offensive possession he feels like he has to shoot it. Especially when he drives into the lane, he NEVER kicks back out.

PJ Hill may be better than Butler defensively. He is so quick and pesky out there, and that save he made was a thing of beauty.
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This post is about as wrong as can be.

If you dont understand why Diebler is so streaky, you never watched him in highschool. He has always been a streaky shooter. Look at his stat sheet from high school, not just at the scores. He had many nights where he missed over 15 3 pointers in a game.

If Turner is a ball hog then OSU needs him to be even more of a ball hog. Turner has the 2nd highest fieldgoal percentage on the team for the year, next to Othello Hunter. Since becoming a starter he is shooting over 62% from the field. Kinda funny you call a guy who shoots 3 for 5 in a game a ball hog. He took 5 shots and made 3 of them... He hasnt missed over 3 shots in a game since he became a starter...How is a guy a ball hog if the most he ever misses is 3 shots in a game.

Jon Diebler last 5 games- missed 26 shots, scored 43 points
Evan Turner last 5 games- missed 9 shots...has only taken 25 shots-scored 52 points

looking at those numbers how can you even suggest ET is a ball hog? He needs to shoot more. You call ET a ball hog when he goes 3-5, but say "I dont understand why Diebler is so streaky" when he goes 0-7...Again JD has missed more shots the last 5 games than ET has taken and has scored 9 less points. Do you watch the games or just imagine them?

And PJ Hill is nowhere near the defender Jamar Butler is. He may be faster but that aids in making his mistakes larger. His spacing is off and in previous games guards have taken him off the dribble frequently. Butler is an incredible defender.
 
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Relax there guy. Opinions will vary.

This is the Big10. The guys need to realize that the game is different. They need to play like no lead is insurmountable on either end of the court. The intensity level and smart play has to be 40 minutes long.

The officiating is and has been atrocious for a while now. I only get to see the recorded replays out here but I watch plays several times to see whats happening. The biggest problem with the way the Big10 officiates is when we play other conferences or in the tourney. Everything is so erratic from one night to the next that on the big stage some Big10 schools dont adjust soon enough. I'm hoping our boys build on the mental toughness as this season wears on, they are going to need it.

A disturbing trend I've seen from Matta coached teams is that their in-game adjustments dont come in time. Now what I'm referring to is the individual adjustments made by the players. When we're having a piss poor shooting night they have to notice that and attack the basket more to manufacture shots and get to the foul line. They should do this even when they are getting wide open looks. A wide open miss is worse than a drive and dish that might get you to the foul line. Of course we want to take what the defense gives a lot of time but we cant have guys go 1-10 from 3 without driving the lane once in a while and maybe dish to a hotter shooter. Butler manufactures shots. Conley was amazing at doing it. Crash the boards and shoot layups if the 3's arent falling. I'd like to see our teams adjust more to their individual shooting. Diebler will get hot. Lighty's best game in my opinion is 17 feet and in. The pull-up jumper and slash to the basket are by far his best offensive game. He can shoot but should'nt sit back for that. The drive and dish for Hunter and Kosta is always there and we should take more advantage of that when the long range isnt clicking.
 
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Garbage101;1065209; said:
This post is about as wrong as can be.

If you dont understand why Diebler is so streaky, you never watched him in highschool. He has always been a streaky shooter. Look at his stat sheet from high school, not just at the scores. He had many nights where he missed over 15 3 pointers in a game.

If Turner is a ball hog then OSU needs him to be even more of a ball hog. Turner has the 2nd highest fieldgoal percentage on the team for the year, next to Othello Hunter. Since becoming a starter he is shooting over 62% from the field. Kinda funny you call a guy who shoots 3 for 5 in a game a ball hog. He took 5 shots and made 3 of them... He hasnt missed over 3 shots in a game since he became a starter...How is a guy a ball hog if the most he ever misses is 3 shots in a game.

Jon Diebler last 5 games- missed 26 shots, scored 43 points
Evan Turner last 5 games- missed 9 shots...has only taken 25 shots-scored 52 points

looking at those numbers how can you even suggest ET is a ball hog? He needs to shoot more. You call ET a ball hog when he goes 3-5, but say "I dont understand why Diebler is so streaky" when he goes 0-7...Again JD has missed more shots the last 5 games than ET has taken and has scored 9 less points. Do you watch the games or just imagine them?

And PJ Hill is nowhere near the defender Jamar Butler is. He may be faster but that aids in making his mistakes larger. His spacing is off and in previous games guards have taken him off the dribble frequently. Butler is an incredible defender.
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I missed you PennBuckFan, but am glad that your finally back.

You are correct in assuming I never watched Jon Diebler in high school. I have no idea how streaky a shooter he was then. Your response didn't explain to me why he is so streaky though, which is, I believe, what I asked for.

I said I wasn't going to go so far as to call Turner a ball hog, and your right I didn't look at every box score from every game since he was a starter to form my opinion. I don't know what it is, but every time I watch him I get the feeling that he is missing wide open kickouts on his drives, and is instead forcing up bad shots. Sometimes he looks like is trying out for the And1 Mix Tape the way he tries to snake through the lane and throw up an underhanded reverse from out of bounds, when Butler or Lighty is sitting wide open on the wing for an easy three. I really like Evan Turner as a basketball player, and I certainly can't argue with his FG%, but I stated what I found myself thinking in watching almost every Ohio State basketball game this year.

Lastly, I am sorry I offended you stating the opinion that PJ Hill might be a better defender than Jamar Butler. I realize that Butler is a great defender, but that doesn't mean PJ Hill might not be a better one. And since I am imagining everything else about the game, I must have also been imagining the offense/defense substitutions at the end of the Purdue game where Hill came in on defense and Butler came back in on offense right?
 
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Garbage101;1065209; said:
If Turner is a ball hog then OSU needs him to be even more of a ball hog. Turner has the 2nd highest fieldgoal percentage on the team for the year, next to Othello Hunter. Since becoming a starter he is shooting over 62% from the field. Kinda funny you call a guy who shoots 3 for 5 in a game a ball hog. He took 5 shots and made 3 of them... He hasnt missed over 3 shots in a game since he became a starter...How is a guy a ball hog if the most he ever misses is 3 shots in a game.

Jon Diebler last 5 games- missed 26 shots, scored 43 points
Evan Turner last 5 games- missed 9 shots...has only taken 25 shots-scored 52 points

looking at those numbers how can you even suggest ET is a ball hog? He needs to shoot more. You call ET a ball hog when he goes 3-5, but say "I dont understand why Diebler is so streaky" when he goes 0-7...Again JD has missed more shots the last 5 games than ET has taken and has scored 9 less points. Do you watch the games or just imagine them?
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I certainly wouldn't call Turner a ball hog, but he does have a tendency to over do it with the penetration. I love the aggression, but I'd like to see him be a little more under control and perhaps a shade more selective with it.

That being said, both players (Diebler and Turner) are young and have a tendency to force things. Diebler forces shots and Turner forces penetration. As a result, Diebler misses more shots, and Turner has more turnovers. Not rocket science here.

*WARNING* These are just my perceptions of how other people perceive certain players.

Perception is also an issue in the comparison. It is more obvious that a guy is pressing when he over-penetrates than when a takes an ill-advised three. Both guys are making the same mistake, but one has an uglier result. A travel or a bad pass for a turnover off of penetration looks worse in the score sheet than a missed shot, but both are the same result, an empty possession. Main difference being that turnovers lead to more easy buckets for opponents than do missed shots.

On Saturday, Diebler went 0-7, with 1 turnover, 4-4 from the line. 10 possessions ending with Diebler, 4 points. Turner went 3-5, 5 turnovers, 2-6 from the line. 13 possessions ending with Turner, 8 points. Assuming each pair of FT's was a possession. Neither guy has a particularly good game, but 5 turnovers is less acceptable than 0-7 shooting. Maybe it's just that missed shots are viewed as inevitable, whereas turnovers feel more like mistakes by the player. I don't know...just musing.......anyhow......

Another issue is expectations. When Diebler shoots, people expect it to go in. When Turner penetrates, people expect a turnover. As a result, they remember Diebler's makes and Turner's turnovers. Forget that Turner has made some very nice plays off of penetration and that Diebler has missed a LOT of shots, look what he did just now! It's not fair to either player, but that's just how it is.

Expectations of Diebler are based on the the hype he received, which was perhaps loftier than was deserved (that is hardly his fault, might I note). As some are keen to point out, he's never been a Redick-type shooter with uncanny accuracy, but ignoring that, when you hear about 20+ year old scoring records falling, you expect unworldly play. He gets more than a fair amount of slack from the fans when he plays poorly, because they expect it turn around next game. When he has a poor game, the sentiment is "Man, that was a bad game. Oh, well, everybody has an off night. He'll be better tomorrow."

Likewise, expectations at this point for Turner are based on his play and production this far in the season, not on an unfair idolized image of him. Nobody expects him to go out there next week and be Michael Jordan. When Turner has a poor game, the sentiment seems to be "Man, he needs to step it up. He's got to do better tomorrow."

Both players are still very young and should be contributors to this program for the next several years. Neither are perfect and both players have a lot they can improve on, but they've both got 3+ more years to go. Let's all sit back and enjoy watching them grow as players. Nothing wrong with criticism, but let's try to keep it constructive and avoid the unpleasantness that seems to be accompanying the criticism of some players.
 
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OSUBasketballJunkie;1064684; said:
The calls did not go our way but the numerous turnovers and missed chances is what killed us.......we missed Conley yesterday that is for sure. Butler needs help.
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crazybuckfan40;1064855; said:
The ups and downs are going to be the theme of the season...This was a game we should of won, but didn't finish it...We continue to see good things from the frosh, and then we see them go back to their old selfs and do some sloppy things...

Butler has done a solid job of leading the team, but at times he starts to force when other guys are doing sloppy things...He just needs to play with in himself and he will be fine, and we need Lighty to step up his play to really help Butler in the scoring department...

On to MSU which is going to be a tough game for us, especially with them coming off a lose...
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Agree with both of you statements. Butler needs help. He can't carry this team all by himself and when he gets some rest we lose a lot of offense. Hill is a good defender but lacks when it comes to offense. Butler might get sloppy at times but he also might be pretty tired.

As Thad has said, one of the things that he knows about this team is that he never knows what he is going to get once the game starts.

I wish that the big guys would not shoot so many 3s and take their shots from 15-18' or go inside and help Hunter on the boards.

This game was poorly officiated but if we would have played a good game it would not have mattered. The one problem that I do have is when Hunter was called for not taking the ball all the way out of bounds before inbounding it to Butler is if they're going to call that the officials need to be more consistent. There are quite a few times when guys take the ball and inbound it with one foot over the baseline and the other one still in bounds.

Two tough games coming up and both on the road. It would help to get a quality win in one of those.
 
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had to watch this game at a bar, i hate to watch sports at bars...

this game was played at an 80 poession pace, way to high for this team.

its not a diebler or turner, you need both. you need them to share minutes so they dont hit a wall. they actually compliment each other very well...
 
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jimotis4heisman;1065527; said:
had to watch this game at a bar, i hate to watch sports at bars...

this game was played at an 80 poession pace, way to high for this team.

its not a diebler or turner, you need both. you need them to share minutes so they dont hit a wall. they actually compliment each other very well...
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All three of those are excellent points!
 
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jimotis4heisman;1065527; said:
had to watch this game at a bar, i hate to watch sports at bars...

this game was played at an 80 poession pace, way to high for this team.

its not a diebler or turner, you need both. you need them to share minutes so they dont hit a wall. they actually compliment each other very well...
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but but but, diebler only scores if he shoots a ton, and Turner is awesome he should play all the time...

Welcome back Pennbuckfan or should I say axlros4eva...

I agree with you tho jo that we were playing a little too fast...We can play that way if we take care of the ball and take good shots, but those things we were not doing...
 
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jimotis4heisman;1065527; said:
...this game was played at an 80 poession pace, way to high for this team...
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I completely disagree. I think Matta's offensive philosophy works best when playing at least 80 possessions per game. And there's nothing about Dave Lighty, Jamar Butler, Evan Turner or Othello Hunter that suggests they are better when playing at snail's pace.
 
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MaxBuck said:
I completely disagree. I think Matta's offensive philosophy works best when playing at least 80 possessions per game. And there's nothing about Dave Lighty, Jamar Butler, Evan Turner or Othello Hunter that suggests they are better when playing at snail's pace.
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matta's teams play at an average of 66 a game +/- .75 for a season since hes been here, not even a full point variation. 80 is off tempo, way to fast for this team.

this years team plays at a pace of 66 including this game, onlyt twice i believe have they exceeded 70, vmi (76) and cuse (72)... the ill, nw and iowa games were played at a 63 pace....
 
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