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Ohio State 68, Columbia 54 (Final)

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LitlBuck;993844; said:
I agree but I do not understand why everyone is jumping on his bandwagon so soon and wants him to have more playing time. I don't know who you would take off the court when you put him in and I most certainly would put Twig in before Dallas just because he has more playing time and offensive abilities. I love the guy but it's only two games into the season and we haven't played any real big boys yet.
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I think a lot of it has to do with our inability to rebound at times, and Lauderdale being in there cleaning up on the boards, and blocking shots...

He is different from the other 3 big guys, and I agree that it is going to be hard to find minutes, but some games he is going to have to be in there...
 
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Lauderdale is also a different look from everyone else on the team because his game is much more physical in nature and on the defensive end. I would look for Dallas to have a role this year similar to Lighty's was last year as a D man off the bench of the big man variety.
 
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where to start...

every game, every practice affords this young team an opportunity, an opportunity to study and learn and improve

ill keep it quick and brief.

zone offense: didnt have one or didnt run one. end of conversation on that.

team defense, i felt it improved, perm def was much better, still room for improvement. interior defense lacked significantly.

players and some of your guys comments

diebler at this point one thing sticks out to me. this kid looks and plays like he knows the game. his shot isnt following but he amazes me. no not his stroke not his stats, not what he has done in the pass. the kid is fundamentally sound on his angles. watch him closely, watch him open up, square up, shift, change the angles of the game for to receive or make a pass. that impresses me. though, i noticed something in the pregame, i noticed a funk, a slouch in the kid. maybe its the year long frosh slump, maybe its a funk. who knows. the kid plays the angles game amazingly well. did anyone else notice how much time john spent at the point? id say more than half the half court offense hes on the ball.

kk continues to improvement, like most young big men the key is positioning, it improves all the time. the hoover and his hands are fun to watch. though, i have begun to notice how short his arms are...

dallas its been said before the kid will be needed in b10 play with his big physical body, he can bang and this team will need that. he came in banged with bauman for a tad and wore the ol ivy leaguer right out.

turner comparisons to lighty. yes and no. completely different player. i think well see offense def with turner and diebler. i think youll see more of a combo guard as the year progresses.

thoughts

how will dallas progression help this team? can he become a player who can play five to eight minutes a half by b10 season?

butler cant carry the load on offense and defense, will he play the role as the offensive leader? defensive leader? or will he be forced into both (it might work but he wont be able to handle the load, thats a 10 year type player imo)

diebler freshman funk or shooting slump? is it a case of jay burson? jamar butler? bfc or is it just a week long slump?

lighty how much offense will be centered around him getting the ball in the interior? remember mike redd as a college player and how good he was at positioning and finishing in the paint?

will we see a real live zone offense by next week? word is they didnt have one in yet, this team is behind on sets from where teams normally are. a good and bad thing..
 
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jimotis4heisman;995091; said:
where to start...

every game, every practice affords this young team an opportunity, an opportunity to study and learn and improve

ill keep it quick and brief.

zone offense: didnt have one or didnt run one. end of conversation on that.

team defense, i felt it improved, perm def was much better, still room for improvement. interior defense lacked significantly.

players and some of your guys comments

diebler at this point one thing sticks out to me. this kid looks and plays like he knows the game. his shot isnt following but he amazes me. no not his stroke not his stats, not what he has done in the pass. the kid is fundamentally sound on his angles. watch him closely, watch him open up, square up, shift, change the angles of the game for to receive or make a pass. that impresses me. though, i noticed something in the pregame, i noticed a funk, a slouch in the kid. maybe its the year long frosh slump, maybe its a funk. who knows. the kid plays the angles game amazingly well. did anyone else notice how much time john spent at the point? id say more than half the half court offense hes on the ball.


diebler freshman funk or shooting slump? is it a case of jay burson? jamar butler? bfc or is it just a week long slump?
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I hate writing in forums but I think its important someone mentions some facts about Jon Diebler. Diebler averaged almost 1 shot attempt a minute in highschool. Last year in DII Ohio Highschool basketball he shot 35% from 3 point. That is less than Cook shot in the same division, that is less than Fuss Cheatham as well.

He doesn't move without the ball and is currently leading the team in turnovers. I have no idea how someone can say he's playing good man defense. Matta takes him out in crucial defensive sets (like before half time). I know Matta tells his 2 guards to run back for transition defense when Butler shoots, but even when Butler isn't shooting he doesn't do a great job of following shots.

If players get playing time based on output, like people here said last year while bashing Cook, then why are there all of these "Diebler is playing great posts." Hes a freshman and he is playing like a freshman. Even if he was shooting the percentage he shot last year, it's not sharp shooteresque. He's shooting 10% against undersized teams that play zone, im sure the percentage will go up, but these are the games that would fit his play style the most.

I did not see Diebler playing the point at all and dont know where that line is coming from. His assist to turnover ratio is 1/1 and he has made some good passes, but he has also made some ill advised ones. In zone defense he has looked alright, but nothing special. His shot was overhyped because of his total points; for instance he scored in the 30's in the state finals game, but shot 5 for 21 from 3. Butler, Lighty, Turner, Wallace and Diebler; if you were to rank them as defenders how would you rank them? If you were to rank them as rebounders how would you rank them? As ball handlers? OSU needs to find a 5th starter who can contribute in all facets of the game and I dont know how people are still claiming Diebler does that.
 
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Just wanted to touch on one thing...About the sets not being in...

They were working on hard them the other day in practice before the game, and some guys were still messing them up...

Also Matta sure layed into KK one timeout when he didnt do the right thing...


Also one thing to keep in mind about Diebler shooting 35% in high school...Quite a few of his shots were ill advised, very deep, his shot selection is going to be much better here or he isn't going to play, so I would expect once he finds his shot, he will be just fine and be up around 40%...

His form is just too good to continue to struggle...
 
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I hate writing in forums but I think its important someone mentions some facts about Jon Diebler. Diebler averaged almost 1 shot attempt a minute in highschool. Last year in DII Ohio Highschool basketball he shot 35% from 3 point. That is less than Cook shot in the same division, that is less than Fuss Cheatham as well.

He doesn't move without the ball and is currently leading the team in turnovers. I have no idea how someone can say he's playing good man defense. Matta takes him out in crucial defensive sets (like before half time). I know Matta tells his 2 guards to run back for transition defense when Butler shoots, but even when Butler isn't shooting he doesn't do a great job of following shots.

If players get playing time based on output, like people here said last year while bashing Cook, then why are there all of these "Diebler is playing great posts." Hes a freshman and he is playing like a freshman. Even if he was shooting the percentage he shot last year, it's not sharp shooteresque. He's shooting 10% against undersized teams that play zone, im sure the percentage will go up, but these are the games that would fit his play style the most.

I did not see Diebler playing the point at all and dont know where that line is coming from. His assist to turnover ratio is 1/1 and he has made some good passes, but he has also made some ill advised ones. In zone defense he has looked alright, but nothing special. His shot was overhyped because of his total points; for instance he scored in the 30's in the state finals game, but shot 5 for 21 from 3. Butler, Lighty, Turner, Wallace and Diebler; if you were to rank them as defenders how would you rank them? If you were to rank them as rebounders how would you rank them? As ball handlers? OSU needs to find a 5th starter who can contribute in all facets of the game and I dont know how people are still claiming Diebler does that
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Well, I take it from your post that you don't like Jon Diebler.

I think you have to remember when he was in high school he was the offense. He took shots as soon as he was past half-court sometimes. No wonder his shooting percentage wasn't very high.

In high school, he also played out of position on defense. He was the last guy on defense in his high school's full-court press. However, I think he does know his place in Matta's zone but he needs some time.

I think he has an excellent basketball mind and skill set it is rather obvious that you do not think so. Give him some time or is that too much to ask.
 
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PennBuckFan;995325; said:
I hate writing in forums but I think its important someone mentions some facts about Jon Diebler. Diebler averaged almost 1 shot attempt a minute in highschool. Last year in DII Ohio Highschool basketball he shot 35% from 3 point. That is less than Cook shot in the same division, that is less than Fuss Cheatham as well.

where did cook finish in 3pt shooting last year in the b10...

He doesn't move without the ball and is currently leading the team in turnovers. I have no idea how someone can say he's playing good man defense. Matta takes him out in crucial defensive sets (like before half time). I know Matta tells his 2 guards to run back for transition defense when Butler shoots, but even when Butler isn't shooting he doesn't do a great job of following shots.

he adjust his game and plays the angle and geometry of the game as well as anyone ohio state has had in the last five year...

when have you seen him play "man" defense? i saw little if any man 2 man def

diebler doesnt have "follow the shot" responsibilities, watch how he bails as he is coached to do
If players get playing time based on output, like people here said last year while bashing Cook, then why are there all of these "Diebler is playing great posts." Hes a freshman and he is playing like a freshman. Even if he was shooting the percentage he shot last year, it's not sharp shooteresque. He's shooting 10% against undersized teams that play zone, im sure the percentage will go up, but these are the games that would fit his play style the most.

i dont see anyone saying hes playing great, in fact how many people here think anyone is playing great? many of us see potential...

I did not see Diebler playing the point at all and dont know where that line is coming from. His assist to turnover ratio is 1/1 and he has made some good passes, but he has also made some ill advised ones. In zone defense he has looked alright, but nothing special. His shot was overhyped because of his total points; for instance he scored in the 30's in the state finals game, but shot 5 for 21 from 3. Butler, Lighty, Turner, Wallace and Diebler; if you were to rank them as defenders how would you rank them? If you were to rank them as rebounders how would you rank them? As ball handlers? OSU needs to find a 5th starter who can contribute in all facets of the game and I dont know how people are still claiming Diebler does that.

if you didnt see it you missed a helluva game. hes a frosh playing in his second game. if you follow college basketball frosh are frosh. remember how conley looked until jan or so last year?


they all play different positions, basketball is a game of matchups, the ability to dictate a matchup drives mismatches, mismatches lead to easy baskets. easy baskets allow you to score more points than the other team, more points than the other team allows you to win games...
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crazybuckfan40;995916; said:
Just wanted to touch on one thing...About the sets not being in...

how many sets are in? not many, not a third of what you will see...

They were working on hard them the other day in practice before the game, and some guys were still messing them up...

Also Matta sure layed into KK one timeout when he didnt do the right thing...

saw that one, hands inside the coat jacket, aka mattas pissed


Also one thing to keep in mind about Diebler shooting 35% in high school...Quite a few of his shots were ill advised, very deep, his shot selection is going to be much better here or he isn't going to play, so I would expect once he finds his shot, he will be just fine and be up around 40%...

im not saying hes going to hit every shot, the kid can shoot. shooters shot, and shooters miss. they tend to make em in bunches and miss them in bigger bunches

His form is just too good to continue to struggle...

hes is "floating" he needs to stay set and keep everything under him, if he floats the funk will continue.
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LitlBuck;996071; said:
Well, I take it from your post that you don't like Jon Diebler.

I think you have to remember when he was in high school he was the offense. He took shots as soon as he was past half-court sometimes. No wonder his shooting percentage wasn't very high.

In high school, he also played out of position on defense. He was the last guy on defense in his high school's full-court press. However, I think he does know his place in Matta's zone but he needs some time.

I think he has an excellent basketball mind and skill set it is rather obvious that you do not think so. Give him some time or is that too much to ask.

too much to ask, ill try though...
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it is key patience with this team, keep in mind they are actually younger than last years team. minus butler they had less than 20 starts combined!!
 
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1. Evan Turner looks to me to be a better basketball player, at this point in his development, than Jon Diebler. Diebler offers more of an offensive threat (at least in theory), but Turner is better as a defender, better on the boards, and has a far superior handle. (He may be the best ball-handler on the team.) Diebler may start, but I think Turner will get more minutes this season.

2. Dallas Lauderdale has one hell of a motor. GREAT rebounder, potentially. The one he pulled down with the Columbia player grabbing his off arm was spectacular.

3. Kosta Koufos will be a frustrating player for me to watch. Undeniably he is, and will be, our first option on offense. But his poor defense and mediocre rebounding will always be annoying. Very skilled player, though.

4. Love Dave Lighty's game. He's better in every way than he was last year; continued hard work and just excellent decision-making. If he stays 4 years (which I think is likely), then he could be an all-timer as a Buckeye hoopa.
 
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Diebler played plenty of man defense in the first two exhibition games and in my opinion he is one of the main reasons Matta has gone to the zone. He was forced to guard Findlay's 4 because he couldnt keep up with their 3. This got OH in foul trouble when he moved out on the perimeter to guard their 3. Right now man defense with Diebler in the game is nearly impossible. He is slow laterally and got taken to the hoop consistently.

Again, Diebler was never playing point and if he was he wasnt doing a great job since he is currently leading OSU in turnovers and has less assists than ET. He dribbled the ball sometimes, but most possessions he never even touched the ball. ET came in for him last game and was doing a much better job following shots and rebounding. It had nothing to do with assignments and more to do with feel for the game.

Its not a like or dislike thing, but Diebler's offense right now is less that Twigs and his defense is less than ET's and he is currently starting. I cant see a reason for him to be starting right now.

Also, he was shooting over much smaller guards and was able to find his shot in high school and still just shot 35% and I dont know why anyone would think he would shoot better in the big 10. He might not draw any double teams, but there will be plenty of 6'3-6'6 guards who will be quicker than him and use their length to do more than a double team. Remember Diebler wasnt the leading scorer on his AAU team. Im not saying he will never get there, but right now ET and Twig are producing much more and theres no reason for them to get less minutes.
 
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I am right with ya on every point JO...

It is all about potential, and putting together the talent that we have...

As for everyone that seems to be comparing Turner and Diebler because they are splitting time at the 2 there is no reason to pick one or the other or say one is playing better...

Turner has showed that he is a frosh and Diebler the same...They will both have their good moments and bad moments...Like I have mentioned before it is just a matter of these guys limiting the bad moments and stringing the good moments together...

pennbuckfan said:
Diebler played plenty of man defense in the first two exhibition games and in my opinion he is one of the main reasons Matta has gone to the zone. He was forced to guard Findlay's 4 because he couldnt keep up with their 3. This got OH in foul trouble when he moved out on the perimeter to guard their 3. Right now man defense with Diebler in the game is nearly impossible. He is slow laterally and got taken to the hoop consistently.

Again, Diebler was never playing point and if he was he wasnt doing a great job since he is currently leading OSU in turnovers and has less assists than ET. He dribbled the ball sometimes, but most possessions he never even touched the ball. ET came in for him last game and was doing a much better job following shots and rebounding. It had nothing to do with assignments and more to do with feel for the game.

Its not a like or dislike thing, but Diebler's offense right now is less that Twigs and his defense is less than ET's and he is currently starting. I cant see a reason for him to be starting right now.

Also, he was shooting over much smaller guards and was able to find his shot in high school and still just shot 35% and I dont know why anyone would think he would shoot better in the big 10. He might not draw any double teams, but there will be plenty of 6'3-6'6 guards who will be quicker than him and use their length to do more than a double team. Remember Diebler wasnt the leading scorer on his AAU team. Im not saying he will never get there, but right now ET and Twig are producing much more and theres no reason for them to get less minutes.
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I can just say that the people making the decisions, would disagree with about 95% of this post...

Our length is the reason we are playing the zone along with the coaches feeling we can't defend the pick n' roll with our big guys, this causes them to pick up stupid fouls, and KK is not very good at hedging the screens, but the staff loves the length of our wings and thing they can utilize that the best in the zone...Expect to see it the rest of the season...
 
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crazybuckfan40;996514; said:
I am right with ya on every point JO...

It is all about potential, and putting together the talent that we have...

As for everyone that seems to be comparing Turner and Diebler because they are splitting time at the 2 there is no reason to pick one or the other or say one is playing better...

Turner has showed that he is a frosh and Diebler the same...They will both have their good moments and bad moments...Like I have mentioned before it is just a matter of these guys limiting the bad moments and stringing the good moments together...



I can just say that the people making the decisions, would disagree with about 95% of this post...

Our length is the reason we are playing the zone along with the coaches feeling we can't defend the pick n' roll with our big guys, this causes them to pick up stupid fouls, and KK is not very good at hedging the screens, but the staff loves the length of our wings and thing they can utilize that the best in the zone...Expect to see it the rest of the season...
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so what 95% would they disagree with. The facts that he guarded findlay's power forward, the fact osu played man in the first 2 exhibitions, the fact he leads the team in turnovers, teh fact ET has more assists than him, the fact that he shot 35% from 3 last year? So where is the 95% other than theyd never admit they cant play man with Diebler out there, if OSU cant play man UT will put over 100 up on them.
 
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PennBuckFan, you clearly have something against Jon Diebler, and it maybe its because your a huge Evan Turner fan, so I understand how your trying to make Diebler look bad here. I think everyone here would agree with you that Diebler, and the whole team for that matter, could use improvement in many different areas of the game.

But watch Jon Diebler out on the court, and what you will see is an INCREDIBLY high basketball IQ. I dont know that I have ever seen a freshman who understands the game of basketball like he does. I can honestly say that the player I have been impressed with the most these first games was Diebler, simply because of his understanding of the game of basketball and his court awareness. I wish I could see him move better without the ball. I wish he was quicker. I wish he was a better man-to-man defender. But I want him on the court as much as possible, because of his understanding of the game of basketball.

Oh, and FUCK MICHIGAN.
 
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