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Ohio State 55, North Carolina 66 (Final)

i'm sure this point has been made but i didn't read the whole thread:

even though we lost, even though we didn't shoot well in the 2nd half - i'm encouraged by this game. this team out played and out husseled one of the best teams in the country for 20 minutes - thats something to build on. this team is young but they could become dangerous in march
 
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WIthout reading through this whole thread, here are my thought on the game from section 324:

Butler can be very frustrating. Thad obviously gives him a ton of freedome offensively, but there were times he would come down the floor and not even look to pass. Is it just me or does his game change when he knows he is in a big time game/on TV? I predicted he would take 25 shots last night and I think he wound up at or above 20. That is not what you want out of your PG, especially when a guy like Diebler is feeling it.

You can see this team oozes with potential. If they can get Lighty and Diebler playing like they did last night and add Kosta from the Syracuse game and get Othello to continue to play a solid supporting role with Butler running the show like a true scoring PG, this team will be extremely dangerous.

The moment Terwilliger does anything good, everyone in my row turns to one another and says "Get him out now because the next 2-3 times you mention his name are going to be because of something stupid." Same thing held true last night. And why does he feel obligated to attempt at least one 3-pointer in every game. Does he have some sort of quota he is trying to meet?

The rebounding on both sides of the ball was awful. No backside box outs defensively. Never more than one big guy (Kosta or Hunter) working the glass offensively. Butler is like me playing golf. Pull and admire. He never follows his own shot...the one time he got an offensive rebound off one of this own misses was because no one else went for the ball and still almost didn't come up with it.

I would like to see more of Turner and Lighty offensively. In the first half, Lighty got called for a travel (mainly because as he drove someone grabbed his arm but he didn't get a call) and it seemed to just stunt his game for the rest of the half. Finally in the second half he knocked down a few shots and at least attacked the rim, although didn't finish. Turner never really seemed to assert himself last night in the minutes he got. I think those two need to be a little more selfish at times.

Kosta must have felt like there was a lid on the basket in the second half.

I'll say it again...this team is dripping with potential. If they can get guys playing together offensively and not go stone cold in the second half, they are going to surprise a few people. The UF game will be another great measuring stick. I am sure Thad will sit a lot of these guys down in the video room over the break and help them elevate their game.
 
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I told my son during the VMI game that I was concerned about KK. He was simply reaching over their heads for rebounds - no real effort involved. That can lead to some very bad habits.

Last night he got schooled. Dallas Lauderdale did not play in the first half until the last couple of games. Last night he was in for an extended period because he was the better option. That was a statement.

IMO the key to how good this team becomes will be how KK responds to that. Worst case is that he does not and we see him playing on the wing with Mullens next season instead of in the NBA.

That should take nothing away from the D that NC was running under the basket - which was as good as any I have ever personally witnessed. They are long armed, quick, aggressive and disciplined. We simply were not going to beat them inside.

As for our outside shooting, I would much rather lose missing shots than lose hitting shots. It will come. We got our first taste of the real Diebler last night. His second hit was two full steps outside the line. I can't imagine what we have to look forward to with that kid the next few years.

Props to the crowd. Students in particular were as good as I have seen them.

If Lawson was playing that could have been ugly.
 
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I was wondering that same thing about KK too. He probably has never had to work too hard for rebounds and now has to relearn how to go for them. Thing is I didn't see any great improvement from the first half to the second either. He should learn from the game.
 
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wadc45;1010763; said:
Butler can be very frustrating. Thad obviously gives him a ton of freedome offensively, but there were times he would come down the floor and not even look to pass. Is it just me or does his game change when he knows he is in a big time game/on TV? I predicted he would take 25 shots last night and I think he wound up at or above 20. That is not what you want out of your PG, especially when a guy like Diebler is feeling it.

I disagree with your sentiment regarding Butler's play. I think his taking a lot of shots has way more to do with the fact that the other guys on offense just stand around and watch him instead of moving without the ball and setting screens for each other than it does him wanting to be a ballhog. I only saw one or two ill-advised shots by him all night, and I can say the same thing about Twigs, Diebler, and KK.
 
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buckeyesin07;1010793; said:
I disagree with your sentiment regarding Butler's play. I think his taking a lot of shots has way more to do with the fact that the other guys on offense just stand around and watch him instead of moving without the ball and setting screens for each other than it does him wanting to be a ballhog. I only saw one or two ill-advised shots by him all night, and I can say the same thing about Twigs, Diebler, and KK.

We will have to agree to disagree because I saw more than two "ill-advised" shots out of Butler...not necessarily bad misses but looks where we could have had a better possession. His inability to hit the floater lately classifies it as poor shot selection, especially when on two of them he had a wide open Diebler in the corner. And I can think of at least two possessions where Butler came down and put the ball up without so much as a single pass. I guess we just disagree about a PGs responsibility...I think when he is 6 of 22, it's obvious his role needed to have changed as the game went on. He seems to want to take over big games...and last night he could have helped in certain situations by being a better distributor. I saw plenty of behind the ball screens out of LIghty, Diebler, Hunter and Lauderdale...as well has tons of high screens for Butler by Koufos, Hunter and Twig.

Let's be honest...shot selection in general was not great last night, as partially reflected in the team's 27% FG percentage...

Unintentional comedy moment of the night: on the big screen they had each player name the sport they would play if they didn't play basketball...PJ Hill said he would "play track" and Dallas Lauderdale said "swimming" because he "loves water". That got a chuckle out of the crowd...

Oh8ch said:
If Lawson was playing that could have been ugly.

Truest statement in this thread...the NC fast breaks were in slo-motion compared to when he is on the floor.
 
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wadc45;1010798; said:
Truest statement in this thread...the NC fast breaks were in slo-motion compared to when he is on the floor.

Oh no doubt...Lawson can fly.

I also was encouraged by the D in the first half. I think these kids definately showed heart. And as others have said, tons of potential here.

Diebler's bank shot three made Sportcenter's Top 10...I'm glad that shot went down, but come on. How does an accidental bank make the top ten? :biggrin: Let's hope we get some much more purposeful Top 10 plays in the future! :biggrin:
 
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buckeyes_rock;1010817; said:
Oh no doubt...Lawson can fly.

I also was encouraged by the D in the first half. I think these kids definately showed heart. And as others have said, tons of potential here.

Diebler's bank shot three made Sportcenter's Top 10...I'm glad that shot went down, but come on. How does an accidental bank make the top ten? :biggrin: Let's hope we get some much more purposeful Top 10 plays in the future! :biggrin:

What are you talking about? I heard him call it, didn't you? :wink2:

I posted this in Diebler's thread, but its worth posting again here. I was very excited to see Diebler finally hitting shots. Also, having the student section chanting his name a few times had to have helped his confidence. I can't wait to see if he continues to shoot well in the coming games.
 
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Zone defense

It seems to me that their zone defense is working fairly well in the half court. UNC scored far fewer points than their average. The only time it has had problems was in the 2nd half of the TAM game (when TAM got a lot of confidence and made everything). The downside of employing a zone is defensive rebounding (i.e., it's difficult to block out your man if you don't have one).

They have also had good success in preventing fast break points. I think the reason for this is partly due to the zone defense, but mainly because practically every time a shot goes up, the entire team (including the shooter) immediately heads for the defensive end to setup the zone. This was particularly evident in last night's game (probably because the coaches were very much afraid of UNC's running game). Of course, the downside of this strategy is lack of offensive rebounding (& the lost potential of easy putbacks (which, by the way, makes shooting percentage look much better)).

I don't have the specific numbers, but I suspect that we've held most teams well below their scoring averages with these strategies (with the exception of TAM's second half).

The overall coaching strategy of employing the zone defense and getting back into it quickly to avoid breakouts is working well defensively, but is
killing us with repect to both defensive and offensive rebounding. So, I think that the general lack of rebounding has much more to do with planning than execution.

So why the strict adherence to a zone?
- lack of athleticism?
- to protect certain players (Butler's stamina, Koufus, Diebler)?

I don't know the answer. But, I think the general strategy also hurts the offense by allowing for few second chance points, and putting a great deal of pressure on each shot (knowing that if it does'nt go in, that's it for that possession).


Just some thoughts.
 
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Even with losing, you could see we could have won this game with a little better controlled shooting. Butler and others took too many out of control shots. All the pieces are there.
Big question is; How long will the maturing process take?
 
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cslewis;1010873; said:
It seems to me that their zone defense is working fairly well in the half court. UNC scored far fewer points than their average. The only time it has had problems was in the 2nd half of the TAM game (when TAM got a lot of confidence and made everything). The downside of employing a zone is defensive rebounding (i.e., it's difficult to block out your man if you don't have one).

They have also had good success in preventing fast break points. I think the reason for this is partly due to the zone defense, but mainly because practically every time a shot goes up, the entire team (including the shooter) immediately heads for the defensive end to setup the zone. This was particularly evident in last night's game (probably because the coaches were very much afraid of UNC's running game). Of course, the downside of this strategy is lack of offensive rebounding (& the lost potential of easy putbacks (which, by the way, makes shooting percentage look much better)).

I don't have the specific numbers, but I suspect that we've held most teams well below their scoring averages with these strategies (with the exception of TAM's second half).

The overall coaching strategy of employing the zone defense and getting back into it quickly to avoid breakouts is working well defensively, but is
killing us with repect to both defensive and offensive rebounding. So, I think that the general lack of rebounding has much more to do with planning than execution.

So why the strict adherence to a zone?
- lack of athleticism?
- to protect certain players (Butler's stamina, Koufus, Diebler)?

I don't know the answer. But, I think the general strategy also hurts the offense by allowing for few second chance points, and putting a great deal of pressure on each shot (knowing that if it does'nt go in, that's it for that possession).


Just some thoughts.

Some valid points here...

I was going to hit on this a little, but at a different angle...I really do believe we have done well with the zone, but I wouldnt mind a switch or two at times to man, to let Lighty and Butler use pressure to try and create some to's and get out in transistion...Maybe a switch up on the defensive end might help us on the offensive end at times, since most of these guys are worrying aobut defense, rightfully so...But with a switch to man, I think it would let them play more freely without thinking so much...

I think that is the problem somewhat is all the young guys are thinking way too much about trying to perfect their game...They need to just let it all flow on both ends of the court...

As far as Butler taking too many shots, I am on the fence on that one...I can see both angles, but Butler was getting to the hole, which is something that we are going to need out of him all season, but as Wad says sometimes he needs to look to pass out of drive instead of forcing a shot over the trees, but other times it is good for him to take a shot off the dribble because like I have said he is better off the bounce...

I really think everyone is new to their roles this year and all are trying to force things and be the hero, not just Butler...I think Butler is the guy that if we have someone forcing shots, it needs to be him...Granted you don't want anyone forcing shots, but at times, for whatever reasons, it seems what ever you do you can't get good looks, and you gotta find anyway to get the ball in the net...

Another thing is Lighty is forcing when he gets into the lane, more looking for fouls, and when they arent coming he is forcing the shot...Needs to stay a little more undercontrol and stay within himself and he will be fine...
 
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Taosman;1010889; said:
Even with losing, you could see we could have won this game with a little better controlled shooting. Butler and others took too many out of control shots. All the pieces are there.
Big question is; How long will the maturing process take?

This is what frustrated me. We are on the verge of becoming a true power in the entire NCAA Basketball for years to come. When I see a break-away 2 on 1, with a great pass from Butler to Lighty (I think or Turner), and Lighty fumbles his feet and doesn't get the shot off, this is frustrating.

When I see 2-3 Buckeyes around the rebound, and a UNC player grabs the board, this is frustrating. This happened 3-4 time, at least.

Terwilliger should have different roles. He should not be shooting 3's.

These were my observations.
 
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