Game Thread Ohio State 3, Southern Cal 35 (Sept. 13)

[MililaniBuckeye]

Joe McKnight - 125 yards rushing on 10 carries for 2 TDs and 150 yards receiving, 1 TD. :tongue2:

I see that crack isn't all that expensive in LA...

 

[TheIronColonel]

Yeah, that's the big concern. Obviously the Rose Bowl was one of USC's better games last year and I don't want to take that game out of context, but their backs put on a real clinic in that game. They're very dangerous receiving out of the backfield. However, fortunately it doesn't seem like their wide receivers or tight ends have been major factors for a while; hopefully that bodes well for us. I still think the game is a push, though. Either team could conceivably run away with the game if the ball bounces their way; I think it's likely to be a fairly low scoring game. I can't wait for the season to start and week 3 to roll around.

 

[rocketman]

I could see McKnight burning us for one long play, but certainly not any more than 100 yards. Just like we probably won't be able to run anything to the outside on USC's D, the Trojans won't be getting anywhere if they run towards the edges against us. Time and time again teams last year tried it and failed - yes, even LSU and Illinois couldn't get anywhere running the ball outside.

However, LSU and Illinois burned us badly with play action - either dumping it off to a TE, or faking the hand-off and finding an open receiver over the middle. Our DB's bit hard on play action when there was a serious threat to run (Juice Williams or Rashard Mendenhall, and Jacob Hester in short yardage situations). Here's hoping the guys learned from their mistakes and are working to kill that nasty tendency. IMO some of it might have been due to Heacock's "experiment" with putting Jenkins at safety in the nickel, could be wrong though.

I'm pumped to see what Beanie and Co. can do against USC's D-line and linebackers. LSU put 7 or 8 in the box and still couldn't stop Beanie from taking one to the house...

 

[billmac91]

The issue #2 is CAN USC run a sophisticated offense the second game of the season, especially with a new quarterback and rebuilt offensive line.

Buckeye86 asks if I really believe they can.

It is the second game and after a bye week. That is a positive factor.

Each running back and each set of receivers has special skills and presents special problems. As good as JT is, he will have trouble scheming for all these different looks.

I expect a series of set plays that each skill group will practice in the two weeks leading up to the game. This will give the deep rotation of backs and receivers in the game and provide many different looks.

Unlike last year, it appears that the QB change and the development of the receivers provide USC with a true deep threat. In addition, Joe McKnight seems to "get it" as a Reggie Bush type threat.

So my guess, Buckeye86, is that USC will show a sophisticated attack based on different personnell sets but not a sophisticated attack with a single personnell. In later games, of course, the tendencies of a particular personnell set will be known and the D will be better able to counter the favorite play of a personnell set. However, in this game, tOSU will be looking at something it has not seen before from USC.

Regards

a sophisticated offense will have nothing to do with it. OSU plays Pro-Style offenses as well or better than any team in the country.

If by sophisticated you mean trick/gimmick plays, then yes, I agree. It seems we play our assignments so well at times, it is easy to beat us with backyard plays. It will be interesting to see what kind of plays Pete draws up.

 

[TomR1]

What Pete tries to do is create matchups. He is looking to get a big receiver on a small d-Back or a shifty McKnight on slow backers or a fast receiver on a slower d-back. Generally, Pete is not a here-we-come, bet-you-cant-stop-us type of smashmouth offense.

Frankly, I have zero idea how USC will do against the Buck's defense. Given the level of both defenses I was expecting a 0-0 game. There are multiple first round draft picks on both defenses. Both teams have backup linebackers that 117 other teams would start. The Bucks have a sure first rounder CB and USC has a sure first rounder safety if he comes out. True, both defensive lines took a hit but plenty of talent returns.

In short I saw both defenses on a par with each other with tOSU having the more experienced offense.

Then, in the spring scrimmages, when the #1 offense went against the #1 defense, the USC offense moved the ball somewhat. True, they couldn't really sustain a long drive but they usually had a couple of long runs and a couple of long passes. Generally, adding up all the #1 versus #1 possessions in the 3 scrimmages, I think the O scored 24 or so on the D with about the same number of possessions they are likely to get in a game.

So, I now expect a game in the 20's for both teams.

One cavaet. I am not a big Todd fan. I think the new USC QB will be better. I also don't think Todd's receivers are up to past Buck standards. If you are a Todd fan you will tend to be more positive about the Buck's chances.

 

[TheIronColonel]

Well, in terms of comparing Boeckman to Sanchez I don't think it's really a close comparison. Todd has far and away more experience, both in terms of quantity and quality (big games). Mark probably has more natural talent. At some point in the season, I would expect Sanchez to meet or pass Boeckman in terms of polish (unless Boeckman progresses a lot more than I think he has room to progress right now). The big question is whether Mark will progress that far by week 3.

As far as our receivers, I think they are slightly smaller than we've had in the past, nor are they as fast as Gonzalez and Ginn. Then again, Gonzalez and Ginn were both first round picks. It's hardly fair to compare Robiskie and Hartline to those two; those two are as good or better than any receiving tandem in recent college football history. We lack something of a presence across the middle right now, but I don't think we have a solid idea of who the third receiver will be. I would have guessed Sanzenbacher before the spring game, but now it may be some rotation of Small, Sanzenbacher, and Washington. Small is more of a downfield receiver by all appearances, but I seem to recall Sanzenbacher being able to run a decent slant and crossing route (could be mistaken). I haven't seen enough of Washington to know what his strengths are, but in the spring game he looked like more of a downfield kind of guy.

That being said, the strength of this offense is running between the tackles. That should open up the long ball through play action; shorter middle routes won't see much play out of the play action (pulling defenders up into the route via PA would be counterproductive). In that regard, I'd expect the offense to largely resemble last year's offense, but perhaps with a slightly expanded playbook and more experience on the roster. OSU is a haven of the pro-style run-first play action offense, after all.

I can't recall, but did USC lose one or two corners this year? How is there depth there? I know they lost a shutdown type guy and a very good safety; who was in the 2-deep behind them?

 

[Buckeye86]

I can't recall, but did USC lose one or two corners this year? How is there depth there? I know they lost a shutdown type guy and a very good safety; who was in the 2-deep behind them?

This got bumped to the last page within a few minutes of me posting it, so here it is again in the hope that it gets some more views this time.


Spring Football Guide from the official USC site.

Of note:

Offense
*Sanchez had three starts last year (Arizona, Notre Dame, Oregon) and went 69-114 (60.5%) for 695 yards with 7 TDs and 5 Ints on the year (I like the five interceptions).

*Deep, young, talented pool of running backs. Someone who follows USC closely can try and explain how they think this jumble will work out if they feel like it.

*Both starting WRs return, but they accounted for less than half of the teams receptions in 2007. They will need to step up their production in 2008, especially since...

*Fred Davis is gone at TE, and the guys looking to replace him have a combined total of 5 career receptions.

*Only OG-C Jeff Byers returns as a starter on the offensive line. However, several returning players have starts under their belts, although not many. They are: OT Butch Lewis with 3 career starts, C Kris O'Dowd (remember him?) also with 3 career starts, OG Zach Heberer with 2 career starts, and OT Charles Brown with 1 career start.

Defense
*USC needs to replace two of the "best defensive lineman in school history" (sounds good to me) in Sedrick Ellis and Lawrence Jackson. The other two starters return, will be seniors, and are described as "steady".

*Linebacking corp in good hands with Maualuga and Cushing. Clearly will be a strength of the defense, along with...

*The defensive backfield looks to be another strength for the Trojans, which Carroll describes as "maybe the best since I've been at USC" (must be all those #1 guys Petey recruited). They do have to replace "lockdown" corner Terrell Thomas who had eight career interceptions.

*USC needs to find a new long snapper and holder. They are looking to improve special teams play from last year.


Lots more good stuff in that pdf file I linked if anyone wants to look at it.

 

[TomR1]

I think one's view of Todd and Mark really colors your view of this game. Some USC fans saw Mark as the correct starter over JD Booty two years ago and believe that he will be an instant upgrade. If that is the case I like USC in this game. OTOH, as you say, Todd is a good qb with lots of experience. Form would say he'll do better than Mark and that's why Pete started the more experienced JD when possible. In this case I like tOSU.

At defensive backs we have have two excellent safties. If you believe Rivals, one will be the #13 pick in next year's draft if he comes out and many believe the other is the better safety.

At cornerback we have two injured cornerbacks that are returning. At least one was considered much better than Terrell Thomas (end of round 2) and one about as good. Our secondary really doesn't need these two returning to form to be top rate but it would be nice.

I see a lot of 1 on 1 coverage against your receivers in this game because of the threat of Beanie up the middle. How Todd and you receivers do against the USC cornerbacks may be the key to the game. The USC corners generally push the receiver towards the center of the field where they have help. In reality the inside route is easier to complete but also easier to intercept.

In contrast Mark seems to like to gamble on the long throw. He is certainly not spot on all the time so interception opportunities exist for the Bucks excellent corners.

One interesting thought I gleaned from the Rivals early 2009 draft projection. Obviously this is 99% guesswork but they have Fili Mola, the returning DT going at #2. and the eligible returning defensive end going at #27. I was frankly amazed that anyone would rank them that high. Since the other returning DE was a freshman AA, maybe USC's d-line ain't hurt as bad as I think. (Rivals has the two linebackers going #7 and # 26)

Anyway, I am beginning to back to the 0-0 game thoughts I had earlier.

Tom

 

[TheIronColonel]

I see a lot of 1 on 1 coverage against your receivers in this game because of the threat of Beanie up the middle. How Todd and you receivers do against the USC cornerbacks may be the key to the game. The USC corners generally push the receiver towards the center of the field where they have help. In reality the inside route is easier to complete but also easier to intercept.

I think this is really spot on. IIRC (and I may have blotted all the details from this night from my memory completely) LSU played a lot of man on our WRs and loaded the box (although they weren't incredibly successful at stopping Beanie after doing so). The man coverage, though, seemed to work well; Robiskie and Hartline were blanketed for most of the game (again, fuzzy recollection of a bad night). Given that, and the expected quality of the returning corners, it seems like Pete would naturally emulate that strategy.

I don't put a hell of a lot of stock in mock drafts this early in the year, unfortunately. Moala certainly is a decent tackle, but I'm not sold on him just yet. Sedrick Ellis was a monster the past two years, and you could always count of him wreaking havoc on opposing interior lineman. Moala was all conference last year, but he also had Ellis next to him, which forced opposing offenses to double Ellis and left Moala being single blocked. If Moala can't force offenses to double him, it may leave a lineman free to release to the second level in run schemes (hopefully helping to neutralizing those nasty linebackers) or allow the blocking scheme to shift for better protection against Everson Griffen or Clay Matthews.

I guess my point is that Moala may not instill as much fear as Ellis did in the middle, which (hopefully, for our sake) will weaken the USC defense up the middle. Time will tell.

 

[TomR1]

Like I said previously, Mola that high was a suprise to me.

It looks like Beanie vs. Rey on the inside and the ability of Todd 7 Co. to mix things up. In short a classic NFL offense vs a classic NFL defense.

I would like some information about the tOSU defensive line in regards to its expected performance versus the USC O-line. As you may know, the new USC O-line is very athletic but not very experienced. One comment from he final spring scrimmage is that the O-line made15 mis-reads in the game versus a typical number of 5. OTOH, losing Vernon certainly didn't help you.

Regards,

 

[jwinslow]

I would like some information about the tOSU defensive line in regards to its expected performance versus the USC O-line.

Coming into the year, DE Lawrence Wilson was OSU's best DE. He's played regularly since he arrived. He broke his leg in early september and never returned.

Cameron Heyward emerged as a promising true frosh at DE as his replacement. He is a more prototypical B10 DE with solid speed but tremendous size and strength. He will occasionally slide down this year. They were pleased to land Heyward, but he was not expected to be this kind of force this early.

Thaddeus Gibson is a converted LB who will step into Gholston's vacated LEO position. Outstsanding athleticism and plays with a serious mean streak. A bit undersized for a b10 DE, but will be used often as a 3-4 rush end. You will occasionally see a 3 man DL (w/ Heyward & Wilson as the ends) with Gibson standing up outside of Heyward.

Rob Rose arrived with a lot of hype and has been a force at times in practice, but has struggled to stay healthy, especially last year (where he fought nagging injuries all season). He also put on a lot of weight to be used at various spots up front, and that weight limited him a bit. He did not participate this spring either.

Alex Barrow was a backup DE who has transferred out. Two other young DEs transferred out last year, Walter Dublin & Ryan Williams (Mission Viejo). Beyond that, OSU has a few LBs who put their hands on the ground (Curtis Terry, Mark Johnson), and some young pups (Solomon Thomas, Keith Wells, Nate Williams). I would not expect too much production this september out of this bunch, save perhaps Terry, who will be a jack of all trades (lining up at FB as well).

Defensive tackle was a very young group last year. Doug Worthington is a 6'7" converted DE who has not grown into DT size. Todd Denlinger & Dexter Larimore are traditional blue-collar DTs. Both have been more adequate than great. Nader Abdallah is finally starting to live up to his potential a bit, but has been a journeyman during his first four years here. True frosh Garrett Goebel could see time in the lineup.

If Heyward and/or Rose can continue to develop inside, I like the potential of this unit quite a bit. The interior lines on both sides of the ball were OSU's achilles heel last year.

 

[usmcBUCKEYE56]

Defense WINS championships

I believe that the bucks in 08 will have once again the Countrys top D. so USC might wanna quickly recruit a tank to get through the Buckeye defense. Im not underestimating USC's team but just look at the cold hard facts. The bucks lost so few from a young 07 team, and they were pretty dern good last year. and with all them back plus a couple new guys, were going to be a tough team

 

[SouthernCal92]

I believe that the bucks in 08 will have once again the Countrys top D. so USC might wanna quickly recruit a tank to get through the Buckeye defense. Im not underestimating USC's team but just look at the cold hard facts. The bucks lost so few from a young 07 team, and they were pretty dern good last year. and with all them back plus a couple new guys, were going to be a tough team

We actually picked up a tank, his name is Allen Bradford. Maybe one of the most natural athletes I've seen. Runs like his hair is on fire.

 

[BUCKYLE]

Runs like his hair is on fire.

Towards the closest water supply?

 

[SouthernCal92]

Towards the closest water supply?

Speaking of which, remember the Monty Python sketch about the 50 yard dash for People With No Sense of Direction?