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Notre Shame must get the Black Athlete

white males are like subjects in a pavlovian/shock experiment......say anything negative (true or not) about women or a minority....and your done....career over.....the rest of the white population sees this demise...shock....down goes cosell...shock...down goes the greek...shock...down goes campanis...shock.....

meanwhile the jesse jacksons can say whatever they want about white society, make demands and ask for reparations....

unless the white guy says.....blacks are better in every way...they are more athletic, more intelligent, better people, they are better....here have my reparations.....take my money......you are superior....
shock.....anything less that comes out of a white males mouth is completely pc incorrect and you should be fired and publicly thrown to the wolves...

its getting ridiculous....the pendulum has swept way too far too the pc side....
 
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NDchief:

You are dead on with your duke basketball explination (Standford too) to add to that, the duke basketball teams average GPA is much lower than average duke students. Duke is a school with serious grade inflation, but many on the basketball team still strugle in their underwater basket weaving classes. Greg Newton was caught cheating and suspended for a year. Charoke Parks was one of the dumbest guys to ever get through that school. On the flip side, I believe Grant Hill and Jay Williams were very good students.
Duke makes exceptions for their basketball team, the only difference is they only have to make a few exceptions.
 
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The issues about Notre Dame having more black athletes than white or each race's respective graduation rates I don't think really pertain to the discussion. If Notre Dame had seventy, eighty, or even a hundred percent black enrollment, that speaks nothing to the fact that the majority of elite, top-flight skill position athletes are (a) black and (b) not up to ND's lofty academic standards. That's the point Hornung made, and I still support it.
 
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Sloops: "But, in all seriousness, they said that a large percentage of ND's last National Championship team in 1988 wouldn't qualify for the team today. I think that's a load of B.S. because Willigham pulled off a Top 5 class last year."

I think that the statement could be true. Today's admissions standards for athletes are much tougher, and even though Willingham's class last year was a top-5 class recruiting wise, many of the players originally recruited back in the mid- to late-80s for the ND national title team wouldn't meet today's standards.
 
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Looks like Paul is backing off his earlier comments:

Hornung Regrets Remarks About Notre Dame

By TOM COYNE
AP Sports Writer

March 31, 2004, 7:35 PM EST
SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Former Heisman Trophy winner Paul Hornung expressed regret Wednesday for saying his alma mater, Notre Dame, needed to lower its academic standards to "get the black athlete."

"I was wrong," he told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. "What I should have said is for all athletes it is really tough to get into Notre Dame."

During a radio interview Tuesday night in Detroit, he told WXYT-AM before the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame banquet that Notre Dame has to "ease it up a little bit" on its standards.
"We can't stay as strict as we are as far as the academic structure is concerned because we've got to get the black athlete," Hornung said. "We must get the black athlete if we're going to compete."

Hornung, who is white, said in the AP interview on Wednesday that he changed his mind after being flooded with telephone calls from friends and media.

"I stood by my comments, but then when you have time to reflect you can always come up with some ideas," he said. "I rethought it and if I had to do over again I wouldn't. What I should have said was for all athletes it's very tough to get into Notre Dame."

Notre Dame spokesman Matthew Storin called Hornung, who played with the Green Bay Packers, an illustrious alumnus but objected to the comments he made Tuesday night.
"We strongly disagree with the thesis of his remarks," Storin said in a statement. "They are generally insensitive and specifically insulting to our past and current African-American student-athletes."

Hornung, who is part of the Westwood One Radio team that broadcasts Notre Dame games, said he had not talked with anyone from the university, but he had heard the school's response.

"I don't know if it was insulting, I would say insensitive. It was insensitive because I didn't include the white athletes," he said.

The AP left a telephone message seeking comment from Notre Dame coach Tyrone Willingham, the first black head coach in any sport in school history. Wednesday was a day off from spring practice for the Irish.

Notre Dame went 5-7 last season and has had three losing seasons in the last five years, the only time in school history.

The academic standards at Notre Dame have long been discussed as a reason why the Irish no longer win consistently. Ara Parseghian, who coached the Irish from 1964-74, winning two national championships, has said he heard the comments when he first took the job.
Discussion had been more widespread in recent years. The Irish have gone 15 seasons without a national championship, the second longest drought in school history. The longest stretch was 1949-66.

"Our records show that admission requirements for athletes have remained constant over those years in which we have had both great success and occasional disappointments with our football teams," Storin said.

But Hornung, who won the Heisman Trophy in 1956, said he believes the academics were eased in the late 1980s, when the Irish won their last national championship. He pointed to quarterback Tony Rice, one of only two Proposition 48 players ever to play at Notre Dame.
"Tony Rice honored himself and graduated in four years," Hornung said. "I think if he were trying to get in the university today it would be tougher."

Of the 68 scholarship players on the Notre Dame roster for spring practice, 35 are black and 33 are white. Of the incoming freshmen, 12 are black and five are white. If no one leaves the program, 55.2 percent of Notre Dame's football players next season would be black.
According to the latest NCAA statistics available, during the 2001-02 season, the percentage of Division I-A football players who were white was 48.8 percent and 43.8 percent were black.
Of the remaining players, 2.1 percent were Hispanic, 1.9 percent were Asian or Pacific Islander, 0.6 percent were nonresident alien and 2.2 percent were listed as other.

Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press
 
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Whenever Prop-48 first came out, they showed that the percentage of black student athletes across schools did NOT change from before Prop 48 to after. It seems that those minority students who couldn't make the grade were replaced by those minority student who could.
 
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3yardsandacloud said:
Hornung Regrets Remarks About Notre Dame

By TOM COYNE
AP Sports Writer

Of the 68 scholarship players on the Notre Dame roster for spring practice, 35 are black and 33 are white. Of the incoming freshmen, 12 are black and five are white. If no one leaves the program, 55.2 percent of Notre Dame's football players next season would be black.
According to the latest NCAA statistics available, during the 2001-02 season, the percentage of Division I-A football players who were white was 48.8 percent and 43.8 percent were black.
Of the remaining players, 2.1 percent were Hispanic, 1.9 percent were Asian or Pacific Islander, 0.6 percent were nonresident alien and 2.2 percent were listed as other.

Copyright © 2004, The Associated Press

*sigh* It doesn't help that the AP is harping on the same inconsequential data that everyone else is. People read that, then base faulty arguments on it, proceed to piss me off, and so on and so forth.

I guess in the spirit of my first comments, I'm just going to drop it.
 
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they interviewed ishmael today on sportscenter and he flat out said that he wouldnt be accepted under the current ND admissions standards....

he indicated that under the holtz years, the school took "chances" with some players.....

if you've heard him talk...there is no way he belonged at ND....

personally...i think it is a combo of lazy admission standards and poor recruiting on the part of nd....
 
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If false, the comment shows a great deal of ignorance. I'm not saying it's KKK level or that he was malicious, it just shows that there is some way to go in mending some of the attitudes that are ingrained in our culture.

If the comment holds truth, and we're all just being too sensitive as some are arguing, then it is indicative of another racial problem. It means that our country's education system is committing grave injustices to roughly 12% of our nation's population by not providing them with the same educational opportunites and resources at the public grade school level that are afforded to whites.

It's not just a bunch of PC hot air. One way or the other, a problem exists, it deserves national attention, and it needs to be fixed.
 
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NOTREDAMECHIEF said:
Except it looks like at least on the football team the black players have a higher graduation rate than the white players.

Over the course of the last 24 hours we've heard this and that heading into the fall the majority of their scholarship players will be black. That's nice, but you can't really just look at quantity. You need to look at quality as well. It doesn't matter if you bring in 25 smart/black kids a year if there isn't any playmakers. You're going to have to take a chance on that truly elite skill player that might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer. What puzzles me is that this is the same school that admitted Randy Moss.
 
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