NCAA Future and Collegiate Athletics Governing Bodies

[ORD_Buckeye]

Or the Big Ten+ tells the NCAA to go pound salt, we've got our own TV network plus six top ten programs (OSU, PSU, UM, UNL, UT, ND), and maybe we'll even have our own bowl games, so why do we need your inept, corrupt organization any longer?

I get what you're saying LJB, but I'm not willing to dismiss the NCAA just yet. Whatever the shortcomings, the NCAA framework is the only thing keeping schools like USC, Oklahoma or Kentucky from going completely off the reservation and becoming openly professional sports teams. Then one has the non-football issues. I don't think anyone has a problem with the basketball tournament or the NCAA's handling of Olympic sports. Love them or hate them, the NCAA is the only firewall against USC or the SEC completely abandoning any kind of academic and recruiting standards.

Perhaps we should tell UT and ND to go pound sand. ND needs to protect two non-conference games (USC and Navy) as does UT (OU and A&M). There's no legitimate reason that can not be maintained within the framework of an eight game conference/twelve game overall schedule. Given the history on the part of both those institutions of arrogance and willingness to control and manipulate other schools for their selfish ends, I think any concession on special treatment would inevitably prove to be the initital breech in the dyke, and you can just count the days until the flood.

While we don't have any leverage over UT, let them go be the Pac 10's headache and internal cancer. With regards to the domers, we always have the option to nuke their little Big East haven into oblivion.

 

[jwinslow]

I get what you're saying LJB, but I'm not willing to dismiss the NCAA just yet. Whatever the shortcomings, the NCAA framework is the only thing keeping schools like USC, Oklahoma or Kentucky from going completely off the reservation and becoming openly professional sports teams. Then one has the non-football issues. I don't think anyone has a problem with the basketball tournament or the NCAA's handling of Olympic sports. Love them or hate them, the NCAA is the only firewall against USC or the SEC completely abandoning any kind of academic and recruiting standards.

This ruling was quite out of character with their usual approach, and I couldn't help but wonder if the potential for a 4 superconference departure played a role there?

They also didn't run this investigation. Yahoo sports did. Much like Michigan a decade ago (who would've had a slap on the wrist if not for the FBI unintentionally finding something on UM), the NCAA's hand was forced by outside forces revealing how ugly the situation was.

Usually they punish the petty incident and ignore the big ones.

Punish OU for texting too much, Peterson/Bomar/half team implicated in Car Dealership scandal? No need to go after that.
Punish Bama for selling text books, overlook the prominent booster action behind their dominance in recruiting (Julio Jones got a HUGE signing bonus).

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

I wish more schools/people would think this way. The NCAA is supposed to be representative of its member schools. Somewhere along the line it became its own entity entirely and now RULES its member schools...

...kinda reminds me of the OHSAA.

Be careful of what you wish for. The NCAA is the only thing protecting the Big Ten from the zombies of college athletics. Without the NCAA, the Big Ten schools will inevitably be faced one day with the dilemma of, "do we crawl into the mud with the likes of OU, SC, FSU, Miami and the SEC or do we attempt to compete with one hand voluntarily tied behind our backs.

Without the NCAA, what's to stop USC from saying, "eff you, your problem is just envy. We're going to bring in 100 recruits this year, give them whatever they want and still accept a bowl invititation."

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

This ruling was quite out of character with their usual approach, and I couldn't help but wonder if the potential for a 4 superconference departure played a role there?

Usually they punish the petty incident and ignore the big ones.

Punish OU for texting too much, Peterson/Bomar/half team implicated in Car Dealership scandal? No need to go after that.
Punish Bama for selling text books, overlook the prominent booster action behind their dominance in recruiting (Julio Jones got a HUGE signing bonus).

Don't disagree with some of the details. OTOH, I want (need) to believe that there's some sense of integrity to the process. Otherwise, it just plays into the hands of the Ohio State haters crying that Tressel really isn't clean, it's just that OSU is too powerful for the NCAA to do anything about it. I want (need) to respect the process and that two year nightmare we went through truly did give the football program a legitimate clean bill of health.

 

[Mike80]

Don't disagree with some of the details. OTOH, I want (need) to believe that there's some sense of integrity to the process. Otherwise, it just plays into the hands of the Ohio State haters crying that Tressel really isn't clean, it's just that OSU is too powerful for the NCAA to do anything about it. I want (need) to respect the process and that two year nightmare we went through truly did give the football program a legitimate clean bill of health.

The process doesn't have to be legit for Tress to be clean.

fuck the NCAA - I hope it goes the way of the dinosaur and $1 a gallon gas.

 

[ORD_Buckeye]

The process doesn't have to be legit for Tress to be clean.

[censored] the NCAA - I hope it goes the way of the dinosaur and $1 a gallon gas.

Fair enough. My feeling, however, is that the college landscape that would arise after its death would be infinitely worse than what we have right now. What institutional framework do you see rising to fill the void that could control the SCs, Oklahomas and Alabamas of the world? I don't contend that the NCAA is perfect. I just think the college athletic world in its absence would be immeasurably worse.

 

[Mike80]

Fair enough. My feelings, however, is that the college landscape that would arise after its death would be infinitely worse than what we have right now. What institutional framework do you see rising to fill the void that could control the SCs, Oklahomas and Alabamas of the world? I don't contend that the NCAA is perfect. I just think the college athletic world in its absence would be immeasurably worse.

I don't know. Something would though, nature abhors a vaccum.

Hell it might even lead to a resurrection of the AAU.

 

[Mike80]

As BB73 suggested, here is a thread for all discussion of the possibility of the NCAA dissolving or any other changes that may result from the conferences expanding/dissolving.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

I get what you're saying LJB, but I'm not willing to dismiss the NCAA just yet. Whatever the shortcomings, the NCAA framework is the only thing keeping schools like USC, Oklahoma or Kentucky from going completely off the reservation and becoming openly professional sports teams.

Be careful of what you wish for. The NCAA is the only thing protecting the Big Ten from the zombies of college athletics. Without the NCAA, the Big Ten schools will inevitably be faced one day with the dilemma of, "do we crawl into the mud with the likes of OU, SC, FSU, Miami and the SEC or do we attempt to compete with one hand voluntarily tied behind our backs.

Without the NCAA, what's to stop USC from saying, "eff you, your problem is just envy. We're going to bring in 100 recruits this year, give them whatever they want and still accept a bowl invititation."

Fair enough. My feelings, however, is that the college landscape that would arise after its death would be infinitely worse than what we have right now. What institutional framework do you see rising to fill the void that could control the SCs, Oklahomas and Alabamas of the world? I don't contend that the NCAA is perfect. I just think the college athletic world in its absence would be immeasurably worse.

The institutional framework would be the Big Ten Conference itself. Assuming that the conference gets Texas and Notre Dame and 2-6 other decent programs (Missouri, Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, Georgia Tech, or whomever), why not just go solo? If the SEC and Oklahoma and USC want to "crawl into the mud", then they can do so by themselves, and the Big Ten teams will play against each other (or against other leagues that abide by the rules) on their own network and have their own bowl games and own March Madness and their own "national" champions etc. And of course there can be "interleague games" against the SEC semi-pro teams, but those would be strictly for exhibition.

The question is, what is the benefit to staying in the NCAA? In general, the Big Ten schools have voluntarily refused to wallow in the culture of corruption that pervades college athletics, and in doing so, the conference has hamstrung itself with respect to the SEC and other rogue programs. The NCAA has proven to be spineless or feckless or clueless when dealing with that culture of corruption, so how can the "good guys" rely on the NCAA anyway? If the Big Ten breaks free from the NCAA to set up a "clean" atmosphere for college athletics, then you might see general trend in that direction, with the serial cheaters being ultimately left on the sidelines due to lack of interest. Maybe just a pipe dream....

 

[Oh8ch]

Thanks - we need this thread. (I took the liberty of renaming it so it showed up better in the thread list.)

Here is my take on the NCAA going away.

IMO the NCAA currently runs on the exploitation of amateurs. That is simply how it works.

The good news for the exploiters (i.e. every major conference and its fans) is that the rules are already in place. I don't think you could create the existing rules that impose the existing restrictions from whole cloth in the current climate of multi-million dollar tv and coaching contracts.

If you move away from the NCAA you not only have to build a new governing body but you have to do with rules exactly what I just said you couldn't do. So for all the talk about a 4x16 resulting in a move away from the NCAA (and I keep reading it) I am puzzled by why the powers that be would want to perform this act of manumisson.

Where do I stand?

As a bleeding hear conservative I have to publicly say we need to pay players what they are worth while privately praying it will never happen. (As a season ticket holder I like cheap cotton and relatively cheap televised broadcasts.)

 

[Oh8ch]

If the Big Ten breaks free from the NCAA to set up a "clean" atmosphere for college athletics, then you might see general trend in that direction, with the serial cheaters being ultimately left on the sidelines due to lack of interest. Maybe just a pipe dream....

But the rules are in place to create a level playing field in competition for recruits.

I think what you are proposing we do is akin to what the Ivy League did nearly a century ago.

 

[Meyer]

The institutional framework would be the Big Ten Conference itself. Assuming that the conference gets Texas and Notre Dame and 2-6 other decent programs (Missouri, Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, Georgia Tech, or whomever), why not just go solo? If the SEC and Oklahoma and USC want to "crawl into the mud", then they can do so by themselves, and the Big Ten teams will play against each other (or against other leagues that abide by the rules) on their own network and have their own bowl games and own March Madness and their own "national" champions etc. And of course there can be "interleague games" against the SEC semi-pro teams, but those would be strictly for exhibition.

The question is, what is the benefit to staying in the NCAA? In general, the Big Ten schools have voluntarily refused to wallow in the culture of corruption that pervades college athletics, and in doing so, the conference has hamstrung itself with respect to the SEC and other rogue programs. The NCAA has proven to be spineless or feckless or clueless when dealing with that culture of corruption, so how can the "good guys" rely on the NCAA anyway? If the Big Ten breaks free from the NCAA to set up a "clean" atmosphere for college athletics, then you might see general trend in that direction, with the serial cheaters being ultimately left on the sidelines due to lack of interest. Maybe just a pipe dream....

This is incredibly interesting....Thank you for posting it.

 

[Dryden]

The institutional framework would be the Big Ten Conference itself. Assuming that the conference gets Texas and Notre Dame and 2-6 other decent programs (Missouri, Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, Georgia Tech, or whomever), why not just go solo? If the SEC and Oklahoma and USC want to "crawl into the mud", then they can do so by themselves, and the Big Ten teams will play against each other (or against other leagues that abide by the rules) on their own network and have their own bowl games and own March Madness and their own "national" champions etc. And of course there can be "interleague games" against the SEC semi-pro teams, but those would be strictly for exhibition.

The question is, what is the benefit to staying in the NCAA? In general, the Big Ten schools have voluntarily refused to wallow in the culture of corruption that pervades college athletics, and in doing so, the conference has hamstrung itself with respect to the SEC and other rogue programs. The NCAA has proven to be spineless or feckless or clueless when dealing with that culture of corruption, so how can the "good guys" rely on the NCAA anyway? If the Big Ten breaks free from the NCAA to set up a "clean" atmosphere for college athletics, then you might see general trend in that direction, with the serial cheaters being ultimately left on the sidelines due to lack of interest. Maybe just a pipe dream....

Problem with this is that if the Big Ten decided to withdraw from the NCAA to stay clean, then we'd likely wind up with an inferior product on the field after a short number of years. Why would a kid go to Ohio State or Michigan or Nebraska to be a student-athlete if he can go to the south and get paid to play in an NFL-feeder league carried on two national networks (CBS & ESPN)?

I'm as rah rah for the ideals of the Big Ten as anybody else, but watching filler about marching bands and undergraduate programs at Big Ten member institutions on the BTN isn't going to pay the bills. The Big Ten would wind up being as nationally prominent as the Ivy League and the modern-day Army/Navy game, which is to say, unless you went there, you probably don't care much about it anymore.

 

[matcar]

This ruling was quite out of character with their usual approach, and I couldn't help but wonder if the potential for a 4 superconference departure played a role there?

They also didn't run this investigation. Yahoo sports did. Much like Michigan a decade ago (who would've had a slap on the wrist if not for the FBI unintentionally finding something on UM), the NCAA's hand was forced by outside forces revealing how ugly the situation was.

Usually they punish the petty incident and ignore the big ones.

Punish OU for texting too much, Peterson/Bomar/half team implicated in Car Dealership scandal? No need to go after that.
Punish Bama for selling text books, overlook the prominent booster action behind their dominance in recruiting (Julio Jones got a HUGE signing bonus).

What is this huge signing bonus you speak of for Julio Jones...I'd like to know more.

 

[Steve19]

It seems to me that one way to think about the present state of college football is that the sport is at a critical stage in its long history. There is no doubt that many top programs have been cutting corners academically and turning a blind eye to blatant professionalism. If some of the scenarios contemplated in this thread were to become reality, then college football would have all the relevance of minor-league baseball. In my opinion, that will be a sad day indeed.