MLB General Discussion (Official Thread)

[Sloopy45]

Woody: "Yeah, they were cursed with idiotic coaching. Why, oh why, did they not pull Pedro."

Dude, they're cursed with a lot more than that. If its not Grady Little, its Bucky Dent. If its not Bill Buckner, its Aaron Boone. If its not Tony Conigliaro, its Mike Torres. People say the Tampa Bay Buccaneers invented losing, which may've been true - but this team invented the excruciating, gut wrenching, heart ripping, donkey punch to the stomach loss.

There's no way any team can tease & break their fans' hearts more than this team. The Cubs have a longer drought, but they've been awful for 100 years. You can't even name one time when the Cubs were close.

And IMO, you don't pull Pedro right away. Your HOF ace should be able to take you home in that situation. Blame Pedro, not Little.

 

[Woody1968]

Yeah, I agree with you on the history aspect. The Red Sox have a history of blowing it, and blowing it big, in grand, gut-wrenching fashion. On the otherhand, I sometimes get the feeling that Cub fans would actually prefer to keep losing.

One team that has sucked for nearly a century and doesn't get half the attention is the White Sox.

 

[Sloopy45]

Woody: "I sometimes get the feeling that Cub fans would actually prefer to keep losing."

I agree 100%. The ideal situation for Cub fans is to not only lose, but to lose in Red Sox-ian fashion where they can come close, choke, & blame someone. That's why Steve Bartman became a household name. The Cubs have been too inept to even come close, so they make up the "goat curse of '45," or the "black cat curse of '69," which I never even heard of (being a die-hard baseball fan all my life) before this past October.

The reason the White Sox' futility isn't as publicized as the other two is because (as you implied), the Cubs fans like being 'lovable losers,' and the Sox' futility has a lot of drama attached: from Babe Ruth to A-Rod. Red Sox & Cubs fans love to cry, draw attention to their teams' futility, and get publicity. Otherwise, no one would pay attention to them (like the White Sox).

 

[Nixon]

I'll watch college footbal 24/7. Besides that I get my sports from the net and very little at that. I was amazed that you both had predictions of MLB by division and team.

You do realize there are baseball fans, don't you?

Personally, I hate college football--unless it's Ohio State or scum(watch em lose). Why? Because I hate all of the other teams and consider them enemies.

Baseball is great because 1) I just love baseball and 2) there's no salary cap. I root for the Indians, Reds, and Yankees(George Steinbrenner).

I favored Boston to win the World Series this year before the Yanks got ARod. I think they are really very evenly matched, so even with ARod, I think it's very close. As we saw last year, though, anything can happen in the playoffs. I don't believe in any curses or anything--if you look at the Red Sox, how many pennants have they won since 1918? I can think of 46, 67, 75, and 86 off the top of my head. And then the near misses in 78 and 03. So they've had 6 teams really close to winning the World Series. How many teams did OSU have between 68-02 that came close to winning the national title? Let's see: 70, 73, 75, 79, 96, 98. 6 times. Was there a curse of Jim Otis or something?

 

[vrbryant]

AL EAST

x- New York
y- Boston
Toronto
Baltimore
Tampa Bay

Note: So tough to pick this division. I want to believe that the Jays can leapfrog the Sox, but I'd get shat on if I picked it that way.

AL CENTRAL

x- Kansas City
Cleveland
Minnesota
Detroit
Chicago

Note: I am an Indians fan, so I'm biased. But I think with the couple moves they've made, they can with 80-85 games, which in this weakest division should be enough. I also think the Tigers could hop into 3rd, but I won't pick it.

AL WEST

x- Anaheim
Oakland
Seattle
Texas

Note: Oakland's a hot pick right now, but I see Vlad having a monster year in the AL and pushing that team back into first place. This is going to be the tightest race, in my opinion - tighter than the East.

NL EAST

x- Philadelphia
Atlanta
Florida
New York
Montreal

Note: I think Atlanta will be right on the cusp of making the playoffs. Andruw Jones, Marcus Giles, Rafeal Furcal, Chipper and J.D. still make one hell of a line-up, I don't care who left town. Philly, though, is a lock to finish atop that division, I think.

NL CENTRAL

x- Chicago
y- St. Louis
Houston
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Milwaukee

Note: Easily my least favorite division, and the one I know the least about. Prior's being out until the All-Star break hurts, but with Patterson back, Chicago's line-up is too dangerous to discount. I also think the Cards will bust people up.

NL WEST

x- Los Angeles
San Francisco
San Diego
Arizona
Colorado

Note: Another division I don't know too much about. I like the Dodgers to make a move, though. Shawn Green should return to form, and guys like Beltre and Dave Roberts ought to have good years. Having Gagne in the pen doens't hurt either.

PLAYOFFS

ALDS

New York def. Boston
Anaheim def. Kansas City

ALCS

Anaheim def. New York (Not realistic, but this is just for fun.)

NLDS

St. Louis def. Philadelphia
Chicago def. Los Angeles

NLCS

Chicago def. St. Louis (With Prior back in the second half, I think they're as strong as any team out there.)

WS

Chicago def. Anaheim, 4-2 - Cubbies win. And I don't even like 'em.

Other picks:

Batting Champ: Ichiro (Jumps back up into the .340 range)
Home Run Champ: Guerrero (45-50 dingers should do it, and batting in front of Garret Anderson doesn't hurt his case.)
RBI Leader: Sheffield (140 should be withing reach, easy.)
Steals Leader: Pierre (Or maybe Dave Roberts if he can stay healthy.)
Rookie of the Year: Matsui (Safe pick, I feel. Best player on an awful team.)
AL Cy Young: Pedro Martinez (20-22 wins)
NL Cy Young: Billy Wagner (50-55 saves)
AL MVP: Vlad Guerrero (45-50 HR, .320 BA, 120-130 RBI, Golden Glove)
NL MVP: Albert Pujols (35-40 HR, .315 BA, 110-120 RBI)

To finish dead last...

AL: Texas (Sorry Alfonso. If A-Rod couldn't make them winners, I don't think you can either.)
NL: Montreal (Who do they even have anymore? Jose Vidro? I bet the Yankess figure out a way to get their dirty paws on him before the season's out.)

 

[Nixon]

Why is Anaheim over New York unrealistic? It happened in 01. I think New York is clearly a better team, but that doesn't mean they'll lose a playoff series to them. New York lost to Florida last year for crying out loud.

No way Montreal finishes last in the NL. Sure, they lost Vazquez and Guerrero, but they also added Carl Everett and Nick Johnson. If Nick Johnson can stay healthy he will be in the top half of NL 1b. The Expos have way more talent then the pathetic entries from Milwaukee and Pittsburgh.

 

[DiHard]

new york doesnt have the pitching right now......what mid-season move mr steinbreaker makes could change that though.....

 

[Nixon]

I beg to differ...Javier Vazquez, Mike Mussina, and Kevin Brown is a pretty strong front three. The only teams in baseball that have 3 starters better than that are (arguably) Boston and Chicago(although Prior is out for a couple of months now). Jose Contreras and Jon Lieber are gambles, but if they pay off, Contreras especially could be very good.

 

[vrbryant]

new york doesnt have the pitching right now......what mid-season move mr steinbreaker makes could change that though.....

I think he's referring to their bullpen. Rivera goes down with an injury again, and suddenly their later innings will start to resemble Boston's last year.

 

[Nixon]

Their bullpen is pretty good. Tom Gordon, Steve Karsay, Paul Quantrill from the right, with White and Heredia from the left. That's not a great bullpen, but it's good.

 

[Sloopy45]

Nixon: "if you look at the Red Sox, how many pennants have they won since 1918? I can think of 46, 67, 75, and 86 off the top of my head. And then the near misses in 78 and 03. So they've had 6 teams really close to winning the World Series. How many teams did OSU have between 68-02 that came close to winning the national title?"

You can't compare a streak from 1968 to 2002 with a streak that dates back to 1918. The Buckeyes streak was long, but it was nothing like that: my Grandfather wasn't even born the last time the Red Sox won it all. It was before there were even RADIO telecasts of the World Series ... forget about TV, Cable, Internet, or HDTV. Now that's a looooooooong time. And it all coincides with the worst transaction in the history of sports.

As for my National League Picks:

NL East
1. Philadelphia Phillies
2. Florida Marlins
3. Atlanta Braves
4. New York Mets
5. Montreal Expos

Quick take: It'll be a tight race between the Phils and Fish. The Marlins lost some quality players, but the core and most important pieces of their championship club remain - and they get A.J. Burnett back this year. Josh Beckett is a horse, Mike Lowell will produce, their top 2 will always get on base, and Miguel Cabrera is the best young player in the N.L. The Phils will win out on the strength of the new ballpark, and no more Joe Table (as Indians fans can attest to). The Mets will improve, and the Expos will take a nose dive.

NL Central
1. Houston Astros
2. Chicago Cubs (Wild Card)
3. St. Louis Cardinals
4. Cincinnati Reds
5. Pittsburgh Pirates
6. Milwaukee Brewers

Quick take: The best and worst division in baseball, all at the same time. Other than the Detroit Tigers, this division boasts three of the worst four teams in baseball: the Reds, Brewers, & Pirates will duke it out for the bottom all season long. No one will touch the second place team in this division for the N.L. Wild Card: the 'Stros & SCrubs each have 57 games against those 3 clubs. Look for a great Cy Young race between Oswalt, Clemens, Pettite, Wood, and Prior padding their Wins and K's against those teams too.

NL West
1. San Francisco Giants
2. San Diego Padres
3. Arizona Diamondbacks
4. Los Angeles Dodgers
5. Colorado Rockies

Quick take: Maybe the toughest division to pick of all time. I take the Giants because they have Bonds, and because they've won the division so much over the past few years.

NLCS: Houston Astros over S.F. Giants in 4, Cubs over Phillies in 5.
NLDS: Houston over Chicago in 6.

World Series: Yankees over Houston in 6.

A.L. Batting Champ: Derek Jeter, New York - always finishes near the top, but never has been # 1. Will do the deed this year with A-Rod, Giambi, Sheffield, and three other All-Stars in this Line-up batting behind him.

N.L. Batting Champ: Albert Puljos, St. Louis - A hitting machine.

Home Run Champ: Bonds, Barry Bonds (47). Still the greatest offensive player the game has seen in a very, very long time.

A.L. Cy Young: Barry Zito, Oakland - will have a monster comeback year.
N.L. Cy Young: Josh Beckett, Florida - has "man amongst boys" stuff.

A.L. MVP: Carlos Delgado, Toronto
N.L. MVP: Sammy Sosa, Chicago

 

[vrbryant]

I forgot they grabbed Quantrill - he's a good pitcher. Never been a fan of 'Flash', tho. Don't think they're *bad*, per se, but they're not exactly *good*, IMO.

 

[DiHard]

mussvagina is not all that great....backbreaker brown breaks down every year....the rest are unproven...even leiberman is already shut down...rivera is solid in the pen....there is nothing else tho'


houston:oswalt, clemens, petite, miller
oak: mulder,zito,hudson,harden
phi: milwood,padilla,myers
fla: beckett, willis,burnett,penny
ana: colon, washburn, escobar

to add to boston and chicago as teams with much better pitching than the yanks...

 

[Nixon]

You can't compare a streak from 1968 to 2002 with a streak that dates back to 1918. The Buckeyes streak was long, but it was nothing like that: my Grandfather wasn't even born the last time the Red Sox won it all. It was before there were even RADIO telecasts of the World Series ... forget about TV, Cable, Internet, or HDTV. Now that's a looooooooong time. And it all coincides with the worst transaction in the history of sports.

I think you missed my point. Each of those streaks had the same number of almost championships slip away. The simple fact is that the BoSox simply have not had that many pennant calibre teams since 1918. That's not a curse anymore than it is a curse that Indiana hasn't been to the Rose Bowl in a million years.

When people talk about these "curses", they're usually talking about the flukish chokes. Well OSU and the Red Sox had the same number of "chokes".

You want to talk about pathetic ineptitude in baseball teams, take the Brewers and the Expos. Each have been around since 1969 and made precisely ONE playoff appearance apiece and 1 pennant between the two of them, and rarely have had contending teams in between. Is there a curse on them? The Curse of the Pilots?

 

[Nixon]

mussvagina is not all that great....backbreaker brown breaks down every year....the rest are unproven...even leiberman is already shut down...rivera is solid in the pen....there is nothing else tho'


houston:oswalt, clemens, petite, miller
oak: mulder,zito,hudson,harden
phi: milwood,padilla,myers
fla: beckett, willis,burnett,penny
ana: colon, washburn, escobar

to add to boston and chicago as teams with much better pitching than the yanks...

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Javier Vazquez is hardly "unproven". You're right, I forgot about Oakland. I would not take any of the other teams staff you listed over the Yankees.