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MLB General Discussion (Official Thread)

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Sloopy45 said:
A passed-ball strikeout doesn't count as an 'out' unless the runner is thrown out at first, and then it only counts as one (not two) outs.

There is no such thing as four 'outs' in an Inning.
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Debatable.

To me, that is a matter of interpretation...in the scorebook, you are correct as the passed ball goes down as an error. For the context of this question, I can see the four out reasoning.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
A passed-ball strikeout doesn't count as an 'out' unless the runner is thrown out at first, and then it only counts as one (not two) outs.

There is no such thing as four 'outs' in an Inning.
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It absolutely counts as a k if the runner reaches safely. in 02 or 03, octavio dotel (then pitching for the astros) was credited with 4 strike outs in one inning. The third, as previously mentioned, was followed by a pass ball and the catcher failed to make the throw to 1st. He then proceeded to strike out the next batter. In the official score box dotel was given 4k's
 
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Sorry, work, for some reason, was busy for a minute. All better now.

1. No, it's not the pass-ball situation. Like Sloopy said, that isn't an out.
2. Yes, it's baseball. No trick question. And it's not a "Oh.. I thought there were 3 outs, but there's really only 2 outs. So now I have to get the third out, which I thought was the fourth out."

And just to clarify, I've never seen this happen. I've never heard of it happening.
 
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Luca: "To me, that is a matter of interpretation...in the scorebook, you are correct as the passed ball goes down as an error. For the context of this question, I can see the four out reasoning."

It counts as a Strikeout & a Passed Ball. Not an out. Once the 3rd out is recorded, the Inning is over. There's no such thing as 4 Outs.

I'm tending to agree with BuckeyeNation that this is some sort of riddle or joke, and has nothing to do with baseball.

High Lonesome: "in 02 or 03, octavio dotel (then pitching for the astros) was credited with 4 strike outs in one inning. The third, as previously mentioned, was followed by a pass ball and the catcher failed to make the throw to 1st."

The 4 Strikeout thing has been done many times. I think Chuck Finley & Mark Langston also are tied for the record of four strikeouts in an Inning. But regardless, 4 Strikeouts does not equal 4 'Outs.'
 
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Yeah.. but crediting a strikeout in the score book isn't an out.

If you have a strikeout with a passed ball (where you get the batter actually "out")... its scored as a strikeout and a (2-3) putout ---if the catcher (2) throws the runner out at first (3). When the Cather jsut blocks the ball at teh plate on strike 3 and tags the batter out... its really properly scored as a K and an unassisted putout by the catcher (2).

In theory (why do I feel like Smithlabs right now?) You can have an infinite number of "strikeouts" in an inning....but they are not outs unless the catcher cathes them... or tags, or throws the guy out... (Or other odd things like a foul bunt)
 
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Sloopy45 said:
The only way 4 outs is possible is if you have one out, and the batter lines into an unassisted, simultaneous Triple Play. And I don't even know how that's possible.
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Again... it could happen... but once again... its not '4' outs... assuming two parts of the triple play are the catch and a force at a bag... you probably score those two as a double paly and move along.
 
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Alright, here's the answer that I have. If you don't like it, feel free to argue amongst yourselves, because I've heard all the arguments in the world. But wherever it is that I read this (which I've conveniently forgotten), says this would work.

You got 1 out, and runners on first and third. The batter hits a long fly ball to deep center field. The runner on third is going to wait to see if it's caught, and then tag up to score. So he's standing on third. The runner on first does the deal where he goes most of the way to second, maybe even TO second, to see if it gets caught. The ball is, in fact, caught (for the second out). The runner on third, however, leaves the bag a split-second early, and runs home. The runner on first (who is now standing near second base), runs back to first. The centerfielder knows that guy is slow and tries to gun him down trying to get back to first. But the relay to first is wild, and goes over the first baseman. The runner slides safely into first, and then decides to run to second on the bad throw. Meanwhile, the runner who was on third has crossed home plate and is heading to the dugout. The first baseman recovers the ball, and throws the runner out at second base, for the third out. Inning over, right?

The run supposedly counts because no appeal was made at third base. The fourth out comes if an appeal was made at third base after the third out was made, which would make the run no longer count. Because no one is out on a force-out, the run counts as long as he scored before the out was made, and if no appeal is made at third base.
 
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If Nolan Ryan is standing on top of a train moving 100 MPH and he throws a 100 MPH fastball...

I'm lost here...

EDIT:

I see said the blind man...good thing there is no appeal in HS ball anymore or I'd spend the rest of my days waiting to see that scenario :biggrin:
 
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AKAK: "Again... it could happen... but once again... its not '4' outs... assuming two parts of the triple play are the catch and a force at a bag... you probably score those two as a double paly and move along."

What if there was one out with a runner on first & second, and the baserunner on first takes off for second ... the batter lines a shot off the baserunner (two outs), and the ball richochets in air (never touches the ground) to the 2B or SS who catches the ball while simultaneously standing on the base. That's outs 3 & 4 recorded on the very same instant.

Zurp: "The run supposedly counts because no appeal was made at third base."

This is correct. But you can't appeal after the 3rd out is made. Once the baserunner is tagged out, Inning over, and the run scores.
 
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The run supposedly counts because no appeal was made at third base. The fourth out comes if an appeal was made at third base after the third out was made, which would make the run no longer count. Because no one is out on a force-out, the run counts as long as he scored before the out was made, and if no appeal is made at third base.
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Maybe so... if you want to look at it that way... but the scorebook.. (if there is an appeal) is simply going to reflect that the runner on third simply did not advance to home... it would be similar to anytime a ball were thrown out of play and the umpire were to award a runner only one base even if he took two... or even more similar to a guy crossing the plate on a ground ball before a batter was put out at first to end an inning.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
Zurp: "The run supposedly counts because no appeal was made at third base."

This is correct. But you can't appeal after the 3rd out is made. Once the baserunner is tagged out, Inning over, and the run scores.
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Like I said, I've heard it all before. You may be right. I just know what I read. I'd like to see it happen sometime to see what the ruling is.

Of course, ESPN will probably blame it on Ohio State, somehow.
 
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Sloopy45 said:
What if there was one out with a runner on first & second, and the baserunner on first takes off for second ... the batter lines a shot off the baserunner (two outs), and the ball richochets in air (never touches the ground) to the 2B or SS who catches the ball while simultaneously standing on the base. That's outs 3 & 4 recorded on the very same instant.



It's a dead ball as soon as it hits the runner.
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