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Mirror Lake Jump (official thread)

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ORD_Buckeye said:
Yes, done. A kid is dead, and the university is going to be paying his folks a 7-figure settlement. Letting [Mark May]faced kids jump into frigid water was always a tragedy waiting to happen. It's just sad that it took this to clarify that.
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Because they essentially endorsed the event by requiring wristbands, providing security, etc. If they had stuck with their previous policy of keeping emergency responders close by, I think they could have significantly lowered their liability. That is not to say they would have been absolved completely but it would have been a hell of a lot better than what they actually did. I do a bit of plaintiff's work and I am not an expert per se, but I really would like to know the explanation from the university's legal counsel...I would be salivating over the case as a plaintiff's attorney because of the recent "precautions" the university took.

Even having said that, it is so damn stupid to be able to even sue over this. Assumption of the risk should damn near be an ultimate affirmative defense here. I jumped in every year knowing very well that this could happen to me. It is very unfortunate of course and I feel for his family. However, this was a matter of time and everyone jumps in knowing the risk, even if this is the first time someone has actually died doing it. The lake doesn't approach students to jump in during freezing temperatures, students voluntarily jump into it. Regardless, this is the last jump.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Fundamentally different. People can have a heart attack walking down the street or sleeping in their bed too. Nothing in common with the university allowing an on-campus event that actually encourages (often drunken) behavior that can be the catalyst for injury or death.

I could have a heart attack right now reading BP, and that would be nature. If I undressed, got drunk and took my laptop out onto the deck in a blizzard and had a heart attack while reading BP, that wouldn't be nature. It would be stupidity. The university was condoning stupidity.

Spare me the pussification bull[Mark May]. This--or at least something coming close to it--was bound to happen sooner or later, and now the university is going to pay for it. And if they were to let it continue, their legal liability would be exponential the next time something happens. Shut it down.
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eh, people do the polar bear thing all the time. If there was a direct link to it killing people we'd know about it by now.

It could be argued that the university was condoning stupidity but it hadn't killed any of the thousands of other college kids that had participated in the stupidity over the years so how could they know it would kill this one poor kid?

You could also say it's stupid to go watch 22 guys play with a ball and get so wrapped up in the outcome, over which you have no control, that people sometimes do have heart attacks.
 
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Bucknut24 said:
Dispatch just tweeted the man died
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jackie-laugh-237664221.gif~c200
 
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I'd love to know the kids medical history because thousands upon thousands of people have jumped and have not gone into cardiac arrest.

With that having been said. I was only able to jump once. Though you could say with the magnitude of the game that followed, my heart is still full from the experience.

I have terrible misgivings about being able to share such a fond experience, then turning around and saying 'shut it down'.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Fundamentally different. People can have a heart attack walking down the street or sleeping in their bed too. Nothing in common with the university allowing an on-campus event that actually encourages (often drunken) behavior that can be the catalyst for injury or death.

I could have a heart attack right now reading BP, and that would be nature. If I undressed, got drunk and took my laptop out onto the deck in a blizzard and had a heart attack while reading BP, that wouldn't be nature. It would be stupidity. The university was condoning stupidity.

Spare me the pussification bull[Mark May]. This--or at least something coming close to it--was bound to happen sooner or later, and now the university is going to pay for it. And if they were to let it continue, their legal liability would be exponential the next time something happens. Shut it down.
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All of them are nature. The only difference is whether lawyers can pin the blame and bill on a wealthy scapegoat. Like when robbers successfully sue store owners for slipping on their wet floor.

And to be crystal clear, I'm not accusing any potential victim lawsuits in this case as being cut from that cloth. I'm simply speaking to the underbelly of litigation.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
Yes, done. A kid is dead, and the university is going to be paying his folks a 7-figure settlement. Letting [Mark May]faced kids jump into frigid water was always a tragedy waiting to happen. It's just sad that it took this to clarify that.
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Let's not jump to conclusions. I don't know what Ohio Law on contributory/comparative negligence, proximate cause, assumption of risk, governmental immunity, or the use of remedial measures as evidence of knowledge of a dangerous condition/situation is, but what if, e.g., the kid was hammered/obese/on drugs . . .? There are also probably fairly low limits on recovery for wrongful death, and the kid isn't going to be incurring any future medical or long-term care expenses. I'm sure they'll pay out something if only to prevent the slow grind of bad PR, but I suspect that it won't be nearly as much as you think.
 
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Jaxbuck said:
eh, people do the polar bear thing all the time. If there was a direct link to it killing people we'd know about it by now.

It could be argued that the university was condoning stupidity but it hadn't killed any of the thousands of other college kids that had participated in the stupidity over the years so how could they know it would kill this one poor kid?

You could also say it's stupid to go watch 22 guys play with a ball and get so wrapped up in the outcome, over which you have no control, that people sometimes do have heart attacks.
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There are several benefits to Ohio State having a football team that people pay money to watch and follow...that money being chief among them. What benefit does kids jumping into a lake have? A cool story to tell? The good doesn't outweigh the bad here. And that's coming from somebody who seriously considered doing a mirror lake jump as a non student 10 or so years ago...because it seems cool.
 
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Jagdaddy said:
Let's not jump to conclusions. I don't know what Ohio Law on contributory/comparative negligence, proximate cause, assumption of risk, governmental immunity, or the use of remedial measures as evidence of knowledge of a dangerous condition/situation is, but what if, e.g., the kid was hammered/obese/on drugs . . .? There are also probably fairly low limits on recovery for wrongful death, and the kid isn't going to be incurring any future medical or long-term care expenses. I'm sure they'll pay out something if only to prevent the slow grind of bad PR, but I suspect that it won't be nearly as much as you think.
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The bolded is the only reason I think a settlement would be fairly high. Not 7 figure high (I forget what the tort cap is in Ohio for wrongful death) but the university will not want to drag this out with the negative PR. They have been pleading to shut this down for years and they have their reason now...so they will take it. When I was there, the trustees I knew were practically begging me and other students to try to start some institutional outcry against it and to try to end it. To which, of course I gave an adamant "no." I certainly understood their concerns and knew some injuries would be inevitable, but I didn't think the first big incident would be a death.

When I did it, students were very mindful of their surroundings and were eager to help anyone who needed it. I was so cold one jump that on my way back to Chittenden, my muscles were freezing up and I had to stop at a house on the way that brought me in to get me back on my feet. I saw the danger in the jump but jumped in again next year. But cardiac arrest never seemed like a possibility and that also makes me very curious as to the medical history here.
 
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ORD_Buckeye said:
People can have a heart attack walking down the street or sleeping in their bed too. Nothing in common with the university allowing an on-campus event that actually encourages (often drunken) behavior that can be the catalyst for injury or death.

I could have a heart attack right now reading BP, and that would be nature. If I undressed, got drunk and took my laptop out onto the deck in a blizzard and had a heart attack while reading BP, that wouldn't be nature. It would be stupidity. The university was condoning stupidity.

Spare me the pussification bull[Mark May]. This--or at least something coming close to it--was bound to happen sooner or later, and now the university is going to pay for it. And if they were to let it continue, their legal liability would be exponential the next time something happens. Shut it down.
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Hard to get a broken neck walking down the street or reading BP....
 
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Hetuck said:
As soon as I heard the news I knew Drake would shut it down.
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I know disliking Drake is kind of the en vogue thing at the moment, but anybody who wouldn't seek to shut this down after what has happened is not fit to be president of The Ohio State University.

I say this as somebody who was vehemently opposed to the measures the university had been taking over the past couple years to suppress the jump - the time has come for it to end. I say this as somebody who took the jump multiple times as a student. The time has come for it to end. It's supposed to be a fun and carefree kind of thing, not... this.

I know it's crass to talk this kind of thing a young man has died, but there's an opportunity here for today's students to create their own tradition and leave a (hopefully positive) lasting mark on Ohio State.
 
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