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Mike Tyson (merged)

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osugrad21

osugrad21

Capo Regime
Staff member
Came home early tonight and caught a series of old school Mike Tyson fights on ESPN Classic....

Holy hell I forgot how dominant he once was...

How do you see Tyson faring against the following assuming both were at their fighting peak:

Lennox Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Rocky Marciano
Leon Spinks
Muhammad Ali
 
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First of all, I was in my teens when Tyson was a monster, so it is hard for me to see anyone every taking him down-- he was the shit to me. That said, I give four people chances:

Foreman (the old version): only because he can take hits like Homer Simpson. That gives him a chance to make it long.

Ali: he may dance his way around a bit and hit hard, and he absolutely would not be intimidated the way others were against Tyson. A huge part of Tyson's KOs was psychologically winning early.

Holyfield: He has ears that take a lickin'.

Frazier: I don't know anything about his style, so why not?

Oh yeah, and this guy:
 

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I saw the Douglas fight for the first time the other day. I was only nine years old when that happened, and I remember how big a deal it was even though I didn't get to see it. It was striking just how bad Tyson got his ass beat that night.
 
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Lennox Lewis - Lennox would have done well if he could avoid the big punch for the first 5 or 6 rounds, but that would have been very difficult and Lewis didn't have a good enough jaw to survive. If he makes it to the middle rounds, though, he probably wins.

Evander Holyfield - Holyfield in his prime was a cruiserweight - great fighter but never good enough defensively - loss by KO

Larry Holmes - Holmes in his prime was susceptible to an overhand right, and his instinct when he was hurt was to fight back right away and slug it out - loss by KO (but same as Lewis, if he makes it to the 8th or 9th rnd, he probably wins a decision

George Foreman - either way, it would not have gone more than 2 or 3 rounds. the Foreman who destroyed Joe Frazier was the hardest puncher in boxing history, so he was every bit as capable of KO'ing Tyson as vice versa. However, in his prime Tyson was so quick and so sharp with his punches, that Foreman would have been on the receiving end much more, so Tyson by KO.

Joe Frazier - two guys with almost identical styles. Tyson has more different punches though and his right hand is much more effective - Joe's ability to take the big punch was never that great, so Tyson by KO.

Rocky Marciano - The Rock - slow, too easy to hit, but could end any fight against any fighter with one right hand. Probably the second-hardest hitter ever behind Foreman. Able to take unbelievable amounts of punishment - never lost a pro fight - how could you choose against him? Well ,again, Tyson is just too quick and sharp with his punches, so I have to give him the nod. But a KO? I don't know. If Rocky won, it would be by KO.

Leon Spinks - give me a break. Leon had a prime? They would be taking him out on a stretcher.

Muhammad Ali - the 1967 Ali has no equal in ring history. (if you want to dispute that statement, first view the Cleveland Williams and Zora Foley fights then get back to me) A jab faster than Sugar Ray Robinson's, foot speed, hand speed, and reflexes never seen before or since in the HWT division. And don't think he was a weakling in the ring either - just look at his first fight with Liston, he was man-handling him in the clinches. Took one of the best punches of any heavyweight ever, but didn't need to back in the 60s because he almost never got hit with a clean shot. Tyson would have to score an early KO to have any chance, and that wouldn't happen. Ali in a late TKO after Tyson's eyes swell shut from the jabs and straight rights.
 
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I really don't see anyone in the history of boxing doing much of anything with a prime Mike Tyson other than what Bonecrusher Smith did; hold and stall to last the twelve rounds. Maybe Ali could jab him with the quickness and keep him at a distance for a while, but that is just flirting with disaster IMHO. It only takes one blow from Tyson to alter the match, because once he got a hold of you, you either went down, or seriously realized what you were up against. Those that didn't go down when "touched" by Tyson altered their entire strategy for the rest of the match.
 
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The only one of these fighters that I am too "young" to have seen "live" -- I.e. in a TV broadcast, was Rocky Marciano.

Of the other fighters listed:

Lennox Lewis -- Tyson in his prime whips Lewis's ass
Evander Holyfield -- Tyson in his prime whips Holyfield, big time.
Larry Holmes -- Even / Call it. If the fight goes longer than 10 rounds Holmes is perhaps favored. If Tyson punishes the body early then MT in less than 5 rounds.
George Foreman -- The easiest call of all, Foreman clubs the punk but quick -- giving MT a SEVERE overdose of his own medicine. MT didn't have the reach to deal with the superior reach, strength, speed, anger and will power that was Foreman in his prime. Forget all the others except Ali my friends. Foreman was the most imposing fighter when in his prime. He was head and shoulders above any that entered the vacuum created by Ali's enforced multi-year hiatus from the game. BTW, for those thinking Tyson would take Ali, only in the twilight of Ali's career would that have a chance .. Ali himself took Foreman out after rope-a-doping .. winning with psychology at a time when his own physical skills were acknowledged to have become diminished.
Joe Frazier -- Folks mis-read Frazier's career in my opinion when they fail to take into account that his huge and epic battles against Ali took place at or near Frazier's peak and during the downside of Ali's career. Frazier was nonetheless one of the key heavyweight greats. This would be the best matched contest in terms of the mix up of brute force styles both fighters brought to bear. In the end though I would actually favor Frazier, unless he were caught early. Frazier could take punches mind, so its no cinch for Tyson to KO Joe in Mike's favored approach of get 'em early. Joe was overall the better boxer. Like Holmes vs Tyson if it goes long Fraziers chances improve. "Cept, unlike Holmes I'd start giving Frazier the nod after 5 rounds are under his belt.
Rocky Marciano -- I'll second Nightmare's assessment.
Leon Spinks -- Punk - MT in 15 seconds.
Muhammad Ali -- The Greatest Fighter I have ever seen. No way Tyson gets to Ali in a big way. His draft board induced break from the sport robbed Ali of the opportunity to set a near unprecedented string of title defences.
In his prime, Ali had footwork, mind-set, reach, sheer unbelievable hand speed and athletic prowess heretofore unseen in the heavyweight ranks. Ali ruled the boxing world like a Nubian skinned Greek God. Some of his knock out blows were so fucking quick that you only really caught them in real super slow motion.
In his prime Ali runs rings around Tyson sending him into an early depression. It doesn't matter how long the fight lasts. When Ali's tired of playing with the opponent its lights out baby. Tyson would be a good opponent, but like Frazier's true standing at Ali's peak -- its more like he's a sparring partner than in a true contest.
 
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Two other fighters that I think would have made great matchups for Tyson:

Joe Louis, who along with Ali and Marciano are the 3 greatest heavyweights ever, IMO.

Earnie Shavers. He hit as hard as Foreman did. He got ducked throughout his career because nobody wanted to get hit that hard. Here's a clip from his bio:

"A boxer who won almost thirty fights in a row by knockout and scored over 20 victories in the first round alone, Earnie Shavers went to fight Muhammad Ali on September 29, 1977, losing a close decision. Shavers again fought for the title against champion Larry Holmes on September of 1979, Shavers knocked Holmes down in round seven but was later knocked out in round eleven."

The key is the ability to take the big shot. Marciano had it, and Ali also had it, plus he was great at avoiding punches altogether. I think that Tyson in his prime would probably knock out everybody except Louis, Marciano, and Ali.

One of the very few tolerable things in downtown Detroit is the sculpture of Joe Louis's fist.

51625_135
 
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I remember my Dad telling the story of Ali's fight in Lewiston, Maine, where my Dad grew up. What still sticks is how he said the fight was so fast many people never made it to their seats.

He will always be the greatest.
 
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Hell, I can beat the crap out of Tyson with Little Mac in Mike Tyson's punchout.

As to the subject, all any of those guys had to do was let Tyson punch himself out after 3 rounds. Ali would destroy him. Tyson could get a few wins with one punch, but the majority of the time he loses.

Don't forget that Tyson in his prime lost to Buster Douglas.
 
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That fight was awful to watch. Tyson was biting his gloves throughout the whole fight. The funniest thing was after the fight,and Jim Gray was talking to Tyson ,and he said I have no love for this sport anymore I just need the money to pay my bills. I am so glad I did not pay to watch this fight. The layla ali fight was more interesting to watch
 
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