• New here? Register here now for access to all the forums, download game torrents, private messages, polls, Sportsbook, etc. Plus, stay connected and follow BP on Instagram @buckeyeplanet and Facebook.

Mid Majors, playoffs and who "deserves" what

Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1616063; said:
And every other league at every level in every sport has a regular season which is not nearly as compelling as CFB.

Careful what you wish for.

hmmm that's a really valid point. I wouldn't ever want to see it like the pros. But I just don't know if it would ever be possible for college football to lose what it has. In fact, it would have made Ohio State's games a whole lot MORE interesting/important down the stretch this season because of the fact that we would be on the bubble and one loss away from having no shot at all.

Edit: There's also seeding questions too that would be big... Like if the number one team loses late, they may move down to 4 and have a much more difficult matchup than playing the number 8 team.
 
Upvote 0
As I said earlier in the thread, you're simply taking these 8 or 9 games (assuming the assertion is true) and putting them at the end of the year, instead of during the year. Ohio State - Texas doesn't happen, because Ohio State schedules certain victories to get to the playoff.

That's not 'more exciting' It's putting excitement off to some particular set of weeks. Meh... I'm not willing to piss away a great season just so I can have potentially interesting games in December.

Likewise, 16 teams? Just what the hell has Miami Fla or West Virginia done that makes you think they should be in the conversation along with Alabama and Texas (or even TCU, Cinci and Boise, for that matter).

You continue to refuse to address the regular season concerns. Until you do, I have to think you're simply not thinking it through reasonably... instead letting your desired result drive your rationale.
I don't refuse to address them, I just disagree with them. As I have said before, I believe that your argument that there would be less "big" OOC games in unfounded. Right now most teams DO NOT play big OOC games. Ohio State is one of the VERY few schools that does so every year. The reason major conference schools don't do this, is because they'd rather schedule easy opponents, and win them all, and not risk losing one game. Because often one loss takes you out of the NC picture. It would have this year. If there was a 16 team playoff...then losing one game wouldn't take you out of consideration, UNLESS you played a weak schedule. If you played a tough schedule, but still had a few losses, you'd go to the playoffs. If anything you could make an argument that teams would schedule more difficult opponents, so that if they end up 10-2 or 9-3, they look stronger.

But in any case, the reasons you state that teams would not schedule tough teams would apply to the current system. So I do not see how the regular season would get worse. Why would Ohio State not schedule USC? Why do they play them now? Wouldn't Ohio State be better off being like Florida and just scheduling crap teams, and hope to go 12-0, in this current system? I just don't understand why it changes with a playoff.

I think you are making a big assumption that the scheduling would change. I do not agree with this assumption.

I have also pointed out that I believe that more regular season games would have importance, not less, and therefore would make the season more exciting. Ohio State loses to Iowa and they are likely not in the playoffs. So it's not just for the Rose Bowl anymore, it's for a chance at a NCG. Oregon/Oregon State is the same thing. The list could go on and on. There would be at least as many games to decide if people get a chance to play for a NC game as their are now.

You made the comparison to week 17 of the NFL. Yes some week 17 NFL games stink. But so do some last week college football games. But there are also many week 17 NFL games that mean a lot and are very exciting. I will argue that week 16 and 17 are the most exciting weeks in the NFL. I believe that the same would apply to college football. November would be even more exciting than it is now, not less.

Again, it's just a belief, but it's not just an ends justifies the means argument by me. I truly believe that the whole college football season would be as exciting if not more exciting when coming down to the wire in November than it is now.

I also feel that a playoff is a better way of deciding a champion than just one game. I'd rather the debate be between 2 and 3 loss teams, than zero loss teams. Sure, maybe some teams might get in the playoff that don't deserve it, but to me that is A LOT better than teams being left out of the NCG that DO deserve a shot at it, which has happened before, is happening this year, and will happen in the future.

And if a team is good enough to get in, and then goes on an amazing run winning 4 games against top 15 teams, then yes they deserve the national championship. Beating 4 top 15 teams in a row is very difficult...especially if you had to do it on the road. If a team can do that, then they deserve it more than a team like Texas does this year, who hasn't played a top 15 team yet.

So I actually do feel that a playoff system is a more fair way of deciding a champion over just a regular season and then one NCG.

My desired result is a fair national champion. I feel this is the best way of getting there.

You argue that Miami FL and WV don't deserve to be there? But either of these teams would be Texas' toughest game. So why does Texas deserve to be there?
 
Upvote 0
KingLeon;1616069; said:
hmmm that's a really valid point. I wouldn't ever want to see it like the pros. But I just don't know if it would ever be possible for college football to lose what it has. In fact, it would have made Ohio State's games a whole lot MORE interesting/important down the stretch this season because of the fact that we would be on the bubble and one loss away from having no shot at all.
Disagree.

First, don't fool yourself.. as much as we posters love college football, it's not true for everyone. In fact, it always disturbs me just how poorly college football rates in the TV ratings. I mean, I literally schedule my week around having Saturdays free for football. Most people don't care. Most people will go out with their family, or do yard work, rather than watch Ohio State Youngstown State. Unless you're an Ohio State or Oregon fan, the only way you're watching the Rose Bowl is if you happen to be a football junkie like us. It is possible for CFB to lose what it has. If you had said in 1940 that Baseball would be quite far behind the NFL in popularity, people would have laughed you off. It can happen. I think it "Will" happen if OOC games are watered down...

It's like me and the NCAA Basketball... I'm told Duke UNC is a big game... meh... call me in March...

Ohio State's games would not have been more interesting. They would have been exactly the same. The only way Ohio State was getting in to the BCS was by winning out. In a 16 team playoff, maybe they could have dropped one in November (maybe not, just saying it's possible))
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1616063; said:
And every other league at every level in every sport has a regular season which is not nearly as compelling as CFB.

All other major sports have seasons much longer than football so comparing CFB to any league other than the NFL is apples to oranges. And as far as ratings are concerned, the NFL's regular season is very compelling.
 
Upvote 0
I'm not going to point by point your post, JXC... it's just rehashing the same old same old at this point, and I don't want to come off as just shouting you (Or anyone) down...

But, I do take issue with this:

"My desired result is a fair national champion."

Playoffs do not produce "fair" national champions. In fact, they give much opportunity to teams which didn't really do much to deserve the shot in the first place.

Nova 1985 is just the most obvious, but far from only, example.

Beat Georgetown on 1 day in March.
Lost to Georgetown in 2 other games that year... 1-2 v. Georgetown...
Was 19-10. Georgetown was something like 35-3

You assume fairness. You don't establish it.
 
Upvote 0
NYBuckeye;1616077; said:
All other major sports have seasons much longer than football so comparing CFB to any league other than the NFL is apples to oranges. And as far as ratings are concerned, the NFL's regular season is very compelling.

No.. well.. kind of... the real difference is that the other leagues have a manageable number of teams compared to length of season.

In CFB there are vast and important differences in schedule strength.

Like I have alluded to... no one was chiming for 12-1 ball state... why? Because we all know, deep down, that all schedules are not made equal. But, TCU or Boise go undefeated and I'm supposed to do cartwheels? No thanks. A Shit schedule is a shit schedule no matter who plays it (including Ohio State 2007)
 
Upvote 0
All other major sports have seasons much longer than football so comparing CFB to any league other than the NFL is apples to oranges. And as far as ratings are concerned, the NFL's regular season is very compelling.
Agree.

It's really unfair to compare them.

Also, imagine if there were just an 8 team playoff. Those Ohio State games in November would have been unbelievable. But even with no chance at a NC, they still were awesome. Which shows how a playoff wouldn't destroy the regular season. People just love college football. It doesn't have to be a game that has NC implications.
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1616075; said:
Ohio State's games would not have been more interesting. They would have been exactly the same. The only way Ohio State was getting in to the BCS was by winning out. In a 16 team playoff, maybe they could have dropped one in November (maybe not, just saying it's possible))

Having a shot at the BCS and having a shot at a National Championship aren't quite the same thing (and I'm advocating for a 8 team playoff btw just to avoid any confusion)
 
Upvote 0
JXC;1616084; said:
Agree.

It's really unfair to compare them.

Also, imagine if there were just an 8 team playoff. Those Ohio State games in November would have been unbelievable. But even with no chance at a NC, they still were awesome. Which shows how a playoff wouldn't destroy the regular season. People just love college football. It doesn't have to be a game that has NC implications.
You have to establish this continued emotional crap, JXC... Ohio State was already in a must win situation in the current system. Saying it was for a playoff bid does nothing to make it more exciting.

Like I said to Leon, college football TV ratings do NOT back up your assertion re: what these games mean to people. They mean a lot to US... they always will.. I give you that... but that's not a realistic view of the situation in front of us, and you continue to not look at this situation rationally instead falling on adjectives like "excitement" and "great"

It's not an accomplished mission just because you stand under a banner saying so... it's not great because you say so.. you have to establish it. I believe I have done hours of work on the topic and posted several scenarios. All you do is continue to post your opinion.

There's nothing wrong with that... but, for the love of god.. we got it.. you want a playoff... now.. unless you want to prove its value I don't think there's a point in us going back and forth any more.

KingLeon;1616085; said:
Having a shot at the BCS and having a shot at a National Championship aren't quite the same thing (and I'm advocating for a 8 team playoff btw just to avoid any confusion)
Really? Gosh... I felt pretty damn gitty when OSU clinched the bid in the win v. Iowa.

Funnily enough, the Basketball Buckeyes qualify for the NCAA at some point during the year... and.. it passes by with little fan fare...
 
Upvote 0
I'm not going to point by point your post, JXC... it's just rehashing the same old same old at this point, and I don't want to come off as just shouting you (Or anyone) down...

But, I do take issue with this:

"My desired result is a fair national champion."

Playoffs do not produce "fair" national champions. In fact, they give much opportunity to teams which didn't really do much to deserve the shot in the first place.

Nova 1985 is just the most obvious, but far from only, example.

Beat Georgetown on 1 day in March.
Lost to Georgetown in 2 other games that year... 1-2 v. Georgetown...
Was 19-10. Georgetown was something like 35-3

You assume fairness. You don't establish it.
To me that is a lot more fair than keeping a team who deserves a shot at the National Title from having that shot. Like I said. I'd rather give WV or Miami (FL) a shot, than take away a shot from undefeated teams like we are doing this year. And re-matches have happened even without a playoff. Florida/Florida State is one I remember off hand.

The thing that really drives this home for me is the homefield advantage. If the 16 seed can go and win 2 or 3 straight road games against top 5 teams, then yes I feel they deserve a national championship.

I also feel like basketball is a much more "lucky" sport where anybody can beat anybody than football is.

Why don't we have two national championships? A regular season national champion and a playoff champion? Kind of like in basketball where there is a Big Ten regular season champ, and then a Big Ten tourney champ.
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1616081; said:
I'm not going to point by point your post, JXC... it's just rehashing the same old same old at this point, and I don't want to come off as just shouting you (Or anyone) down...

But, I do take issue with this:

"My desired result is a fair national champion."

Playoffs do not produce "fair" national champions. In fact, they give much opportunity to teams which didn't really do much to deserve the shot in the first place.

Nova 1985 is just the most obvious, but far from only, example.

Beat Georgetown on 1 day in March.
Lost to Georgetown in 2 other games that year... 1-2 v. Georgetown...
Was 19-10. Georgetown was something like 35-3

You assume fairness. You don't establish it.

My question then, is how is it fair that an undefeated team like Boise who has a win over Oregon doesn't have a shot at a National Championship? They're undefeated, and have a win that is better than anything that Texas has. Not that I think Boise is better than Texas, but how are polls supposed to decide that Texas is better than Boise? How are polls supposed to decide that Texas gets to play for a championship while Boise is going to, maybe, play in a BCS game.
 
Upvote 0
Buckeyeskickbuttocks;1616092; said:
Really? Gosh... I felt pretty damn gitty when OSU clinched the bid in the win v. Iowa.

Funnily enough, the Basketball Buckeyes qualify for the NCAA at some point during the year... and.. it passes by with little fan fare...

Yea I felt giddy too, but I'd feel even more giddy if I knew my team was still going to be playing for a chance at a championship soon.
 
Upvote 0
KingLeon;1616094; said:
My question then, is how is it fair that an undefeated team like Boise who has a win over Oregon doesn't have a shot at a National Championship? They're undefeated, and have a win that is better than anything that Texas has. Not that I think Boise is better than Texas, but how are polls supposed to decide that Texas is better than Boise? How are polls supposed to decide that Texas gets to play for a championship while Boise is going to, maybe, play in a BCS game.

It's NOT fair. I never said it was. No system is fair. It draws lines. The line is drawn at two.


Tough.

Edit: We can draw the line in other places, sure... but at what expense in my question. Billmac and LJB have addressed this in prior posts and I'd be willing to sign on to their plans (though I still have to examine Billmac's more carefully to be sure).

You look at one win over Boise like it trumps Texas' schedule, and that's not "fair." Boise's SOS was 91st... Texas 48th. That's a signifigant difference. Given that Texas and Boise were otherwise equal (won loss record) I'm going with the team that had the harder road. Now.. how's that "unfair?"
 
Upvote 0
KingLeon;1616097; said:
Yea I felt giddy too, but I'd feel even more giddy if I knew my team was still going to be playing for a chance at a championship soon.

I've never felt "gitty" knowing my team just got in the playoffs. Honestly. No once. Ever.

Most of the time, when they qualify, it comes with little fan fare at all.. take New Orleans and Indianapolis, for example... they're in.. and...

who fucking cares? They got a Y by their names in the standings! Whoppty shit.
 
Upvote 0
I don't know how you can say that you woudn't rather still have a shot at a championship right now instead of playing in the Rose Bowl. I'm thrilled to be in the Rose Bowl, but my main goal if I have a chance to achieve it is to keep playing for a championship.
 
Upvote 0
Back
Top