Michigan BB Head Coach Position

[super_mario]

When was the last time they made a noticeable investment in basketball, sm?

Congratulations on your moral victory (tho I'd like to see some numbers backing up your assertion). I'd imagine many bball fans would be okay with a couple million in debt (easily paid off by donors if there's a reason to support bball) for a simple practice facility.

How about in 2005 the AD's profits were 17 million. 2006 they were even higher.

OSU's in that time-span? Y'all were in the black and red in those years.

 

[MaxBuck]

How about in 2005 the AD's profits were 17 million. 2006 they were even higher.

OSU's in that time-span? Y'all were in the black and red in those years.

The idea is for the athletic program to essentially break even, providing the highest possible number of student-athletes the opportunity to participate in collegiate athletics at one's school. Ohio State does that; UM obviously views the athletic department as a cash cow. If you want to brag about that, go ahead, but I wouldn't be proud of that statistic.

You do know that "in the red" means negative cash flow (in this context)?

 

[MaxBuck]

Sorry MaxBuck, but I tend to AGREE wholeheartedly with the way Michigan does things. The AD is completely self-sufficient and one of the few out there that actually turns a profit.

Sorry we can't be like Ohio State and borrow from the school and go into massive debts just to keep up with the Jones'. You know the main difference between people who have a lot of money and who don't is debt management. Most people with a lot of money have it because they saved it, and invested it wisely. They don't get into debt up to their eyeballs. There are plenty of people in this country who live $500,000+ houses and drive Mercedes Benz's who in reality cannot afford to live in those houses and drive that kind of car. They go into debt up to their eyeballs to pay for it and all that usually happens is their house goes into foreclosure and they have to give up their car. Only person who should have a top-of the line Mercedes is one who can write a check for it and pay for it in cash and not have to bat an eye about it.

Same thing goes with successful corporations, which is what UM's AD is- a self-suficent corporation which tries to use it's funds on all athletics, not just basketball and football.

Call me old-fashioned or conservative, ridicule me, the school I love, or my post, but I can proudly say that I'm one of the few Americans that isn't in debt up to their freaking eyeballs. It's sad just how much debt this country is in, and foreign countries/corporations are buying up all of our debt.

Yes, I will ridicule Michigan (if that is the school you love; looks like it is). What a self-impressed, self-important bunch of snobs inhabit Ann Arbor. And your poorly-informed posts here reinforce that fact.

Why don't you get the facts straight before you throw stones? The Ohio State athletic department did NOT "borrow from the school." They borrowed responsibly from lending institutions in order to build top-drawer programs in football and basketball, which provide the cash flow to retire the debt and fund the most extensive support program for student-athletes that exists in the nation. Nothing about what Andy Geiger and Gene Smith have done increases the tuition or fees of the student body at tOSU, so again -- get your facts straight.

Weasel fans coming here to justify the shortcomings and drive-to-mediocrity that characterizes their athletic department bemuse me. Since you're so doggone pleased with yourselves, why do you need to come here to try to justify yourselves to Buckeye fans?

 

[jwinslow]

How about in 2005 the AD's profits were 17 million. 2006 they were even higher.

Is the goal to turn a profit or support SA's? How did Michigan invest in the future of their athletic programs in those years?

If OSU breaks even (or comes close*) despite massive investments in the future of athletics, that's a great accomplishment. No school supports more SA's in their pursuit of education and athletics, while the vast majority are a drain on the AD's bottom line. Profit or SA's?

A large portion of these facilities were built in the last decade. Pure speculation, but I'd imagine the large-ticket upgrades will slow down a bit.

OSU's in that time-span? Y'all were in the black and red in those years.

* - I can't seem to find the graphic now, but there was a dispatch graphic which showed OSU broke even or had a minor profit in those years, save one (which was < $2 mill, I think).

 

[super_mario]

The idea is for the athletic program to essentially break even, providing the highest possible number of student-athletes the opportunity to participate in collegiate athletics at one's school. Ohio State does that; UM obviously views the athletic department as a cash cow. If you want to brag about that, go ahead, but I wouldn't be proud of that statistic.

You do know that "in the red" means negative cash flow (in this context)?

Really, you think!

Ahhh-duh. Ohio State goes into the red, you don't even break even, you spend more than you take in.

I'm more than proud that Michigan- which is first and foremost an ACADEMIC institution- isn't willing to go into the red or borrow from university in order to just keep up with the Jones'.

UM has a couple billionaire bread-and-butter alums who are more than willing to cut checks if need be. Much rather have private funding and donations to get things rolling than to take money from the university.

 

[Saw31]

Really, you think!

Ahhh-duh. Ohio State goes into the red, you don't even break even, you spend more than you take in.

I'm more than proud that Michigan- which is first and foremost an ACADEMIC institution- isn't willing to go into the red or borrow from university in order to just keep up with the Jones'.

UM has a couple billionaire bread-and-butter alums who are more than willing to cut checks if need be. Much rather have private funding and donations to get things rolling than to take money from the university.

We are the Jones'. We aren't trying to keep up with anyone. We set the bar...

 

[jwinslow]

Please start backing up your claims with links or stats. You honestly believe OSU is upgrading facilities just to be hip, like your argument suggests? They aren't supporting their athletic programs, which in many examples has improved their recruiting, performance, & enjoyment for SA's & students alike?

 

[MaxBuck]

Really, you think!

Ahhh-duh. Ohio State goes into the red, you don't even break even, you spend more than you take in.

I'm more than proud that Michigan- which is first and foremost an ACADEMIC institution- isn't willing to go into the red or borrow from university in order to just keep up with the Jones'.

UM has a couple billionaire bread-and-butter alums who are more than willing to cut checks if need be. Much rather have private funding and donations to get things rolling than to take money from the university.

You have exhibited very little business sense in any of your posts, thus my curiosity regarding whether you understood what "in the black" or "in the red" means. In one of your posts you stated:

They will not borrow from the school or go into the red or even the black to get projects done.

Whatever the f*ck that means. Makes no sense from an accounting standpoint, since at all times one is either in the black or in the red.

Again - you throw out this nonsense about "borrowing from the university," implying that Ohio State's AD has done that. It hasn't. Go away, or at least start researching your arguments and making some modicum of sense.

(As a representative of an

ACADEMIC institution

you are not acquitting yourself particularly well.)

 

[jwinslow]

How about in 2005 the AD's profits were 17 million. 2006 they were even higher.

OSU's in that time-span? Y'all were in the black and red in those years.

10TV
08/18/06

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) - Ohio State's athletic department has surpassed $100 million in annual revenue for the first time.

The Columbus Dispatch has obtained documents from Ohio State that show its athletic department made $101.5 million during the just ended 2005-2006 fiscal year.

The athletic department also has a surplus of nearly $3 million that's being invested to help fund construction of a women's softball stadium, a women's crew boathouse and an indoor tennis facility.

Athletic director Gene Smith projects future annual revenue growth of five percent to six percent for Ohio State's 36 sports, which receive no university funding but contribute millions to OSU's general fund.

One would imagine revenue would increase with title berths in both major sports.

 

[Golferdow01]

When fans of a university who own the best historical record in football start using the "academic first" excuse as a scapegoat for recent athletic mediocracy, they are kidding themselves. Unless you invest in better facilities you aren't going to turn around recruiting. Oh, and good luck trying to turn around recruiting in this area when you're going up against Matta, Sampson, and Izzo.

Does one wait until they have enough to purchase half a home's equity before investing in a mortgage? There is nothing wrong with borrowing from lenders if you forsee turning greater profits due to that investment. It's simply good business practice.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

I find the wording interesting as well. Probably reading to much into it, but super_mario mentions the AD having a "profit", whereas WBNS uses the term "surplus". For-profit speak versus non-profit speak. Purely semantics, just caught my eye.

When fans of a university who own the best historical record in football start using the "academic first" excuse as a scapegoat for recent athletic mediocracy, they are kidding themselves. Unless you invest in better facilities you aren't going to turn around recruiting. Oh, and good luck trying to turn around recruiting in this area when you're going up against Matta, Sampson, and Izzo.

Does one wait until they have enough to purchase half a home's equity before investing in a mortgage? There is nothing wrong with borrowing from lenders if you forsee turning greater profits due to that investment. It's simply good business practice.

On the nose. Debt isn't a bad thing if the cost of the debt is less than the value brought in by the associated asset.

And OSU isn't "scraping by" ala the dipshits who outspend their means, the budget is designed such that the AD should break even. The money coming in from the high-revenue sports is earmarked for use in supporting the rest of the department. Any surplus isn't stashed away for future use, it is re-allocated to support something else, i.e. a new softball stadium.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Michigan runs their program, but it is no better or worse than how OSU does it. Just a different mindset.

 

[MaxBuck]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Michigan runs their program, but it is no better or worse than how OSU does it. Just a different mindset.

I'll take issue with you a bit, BuckyKatt. There is something wrong if you hamstring a coach by refusing to invest in practice facililities, etc. that would put you on par with your competition, then whine about the results when your team wallows in mediocrity. Michigan treats its hoop program like a red-headed stepchild, but they still want to lead the B11. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

I'll take issue with you a bit, BuckyKatt. There is something wrong if you hamstring a coach by refusing to invest in practice facililities, etc. that would put you on par with your competition, then whine about the results when your team wallows in mediocrity. Michigan treats its hoop program like a red-headed stepchild, but they still want to lead the B11. Makes no sense to me.

You think there's something wrong with a system that hamstrings the TSUN athletic department? I cannot express how strongly I disagree.

 

[Saw31]

You think there's something wrong with a system that hamstrings the TSUN athletic department? I cannot express how strongly I disagree.

Great post. I agree...

 

[MaxBuck]

You think there's something wrong with a system that hamstrings the TSUN athletic department? I cannot express how strongly I disagree.

Touche!:tongue2: