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Man with concealed-carry permit kills robbery suspect

Damn, Saw must be sleeping it off. I can't believe that he hasn't stopped by here to lay down his $.02...

I agree with the guy defending himself, but it is a shame for anyone that young to not have a chance to turn things around.
 
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This is why concealed-carry is a good thing. If you don't know if someone has a gun you are less likely to try to rob them. Sure people are going to get shot or die from situations like this, but the kid had it coming. If you don't want to get shot don't rob someone.
 
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redskinbucksfan;820894; said:
Bullshit. I have nieces and nephews under the age of 5 that know that stealing is wrong.

I would also have to guess that your nieces and nephews have a more solid foundation of guidance than this kid likely received.

I see kids like this everyday. Stealing, violence, etc is wrong...if you get caught.

Kids who watch their parents do whatever to get by or get ahead don't learn, comprehend, or put a realistic value on consequences.

However, the kid was wrong...no doubt about it.
 
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exhawg;820897; said:
This is why concealed-carry is a good thing. If you don't know if someone has a gun you are less likely to try to rob them. Sure people are going to get shot or die from situations like this, but the kid had it coming. If you don't want to get shot don't rob someone.

Absolutely, individuals thinking of committing a crime have something to think about, anyone, anywhere could be strapped. It is a shame that a 15 year old kid is dead, but he made that choice to commit a crime. I don't buy into that psychobabble bullshit either. There are consequences for the choices you make in life, something I was taught at a young age, you either need to be prepared to deal with those consequences or you need to make different choices. Period.
 
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Big Papa;820916; said:
There are consequences for the choices you make in life, something I was taught at a young age, you either need to be prepared to deal with those consequences or you need to make different choices. Period.

Be happy that you were...

Come on down to SC sometime, I'll take you on a tour that will shake your world.
 
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osugrad21;820915; said:
I would also have to guess that your nieces and nephews have a more solid foundation of guidance than this kid likely received.

I see kids like this everyday. Stealing, violence, etc is wrong...if you get caught.

Kids who watch their parents do whatever to get by or get ahead don't learn, comprehend, or put a realistic value on consequences.

However, the kid was wrong...no doubt about it.

True.
 
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osugrad21;820915; said:
I would also have to guess that your nieces and nephews have a more solid foundation of guidance than this kid likely received.

I see kids like this everyday. Stealing, violence, etc is wrong...if you get caught.

Kids who watch their parents do whatever to get by or get ahead don't learn, comprehend, or put a realistic value on consequences.

However, the kid was wrong...no doubt about it.

Kids can grow up in that environment and still have a built in moral compass by which to guide them.

Choices are choices. They can be influenced by past experiences, but those aren't the be all, end all.
 
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osugrad21;820924; said:
Be happy that you were...

Come on down to SC sometime, I'll take you on a tour that will shake your world.
I hear you Grad...my cousin is a middle school teacher for an inner city school in Minneapolis where the poverty rate is 99%. I had the privilege to observe her for a half of a day a few weeks ago. I say privilege because I want to be a teacher, and it was an incredible eye-opener. Some of these young men and women had the filthiest mouths on them, had no respect for any kind of authority, and laughed at my cousin when she tried any kind of discipline. I witnessed a fight in the hallway. A young man threatened to beat up a girl because she pulled on his shirt. One boy asked a girl if she wanted to have sex with him, and they were 12 years old. Don't get me wrong, I did see a lot of good as well; boys and girls doing their work, raising their hand, asking questions, wanting to learn, and having an overall positive attitude. My interaction with the students was limited because I'm not licensed, but I could see that everyone of these kids had potential to be whatever they wanted to be. It was certainly a valued experience, but it only encouraged me.

These kind of cases, in a sense, bring about the whole nature vs. nurture debate. I won't get into it for fear of causing a ruckus which should be left off the thread, but these young men and women need guidance. While I do feel sorry for the family of the boy who got shot, he chose this path of action. He was aware (I use this lightly) of the potential consequences, chose to ignore them, and he ended up dead. It's very sad.
 
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scooter1369;820979; said:
Kids can grow up in that environment and still have a built in moral compass by which to guide them.

Choices are choices. They can be influenced by past experiences, but those aren't the be all, end all.

Absolutely, but which is more likely? Morals are learned via environment.
 
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osugrad21;820987; said:
Morals are learned via environment.
Yup, very very true. I know Im thankful for pops and mom doing what they did and raising me the way i was. I'm with everyone here in feeling sorry a 15 year old was killed, but this is exactly why conceal-carry laws should remain.
 
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osugrad21;820924; said:
Be happy that you were...

Come on down to SC sometime, I'll take you on a tour that will shake your world.

I still believe kids know right from wrong, especially as a teenager. I am sympathetic to them, but I can not use it as an excuse for criminal behavior. I have no doubt you could show me terrible things that are occurring in SC. The whole Katrina devastation really opened people's eyes to what is happening in other parts of the country that many of us don't want to believe exists, or turn a blind eye to. Believe me, there is plenty of poverty in the Cleveland/Akron area and I know those kids are not getting the positive upbringing that they need to learn the lessons that they need to learn from their parents or guardians. There are governmental agencies in place like Children/Family Services, but it always seems like they are underfunded and undermanned. But that is whole different subject that probably belongs in the Poli forum.
 
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When I was 15, I made some stupid decisions too...Toilet papering houses, stealing lawn ornaments, etc....
At no point did I ever even think about pulling a gun on someone and robbing them. It's sad that a 15 year old had to die, but it would be even more said if the 25 year old victim/man/father/son was killed.
 
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Romanowski;820983; said:
I hear you Grad...my cousin is a middle school teacher for an inner city school in Minneapolis where the poverty rate is 99%.

We could trade stories all day...its a terrible situation that is easier to sweep under the rug or toss into the stereotype bin.

The one story I always tell people who need some perspective...took a ballplayer home one night and insisted on seeing his mother because we needed a permission slip signed for early dismissal...he was a freshman and a phenom. This is after a week of excuses and hedging from the kid...I was young(er) and naive to what I was doing to this kid by insisting.

Pulled into the trailer park...that is a story in itself. The first thing I noticed was that his trailer did not have a doorknob but instead had a stick turned sideways across the door and the place where the knob would normally be was simply a hole. After the boy pulled the door open, I saw the stick was tied by a rope to a rock on the floor...that is how they kept the door closed....no lock, nothing. I wasn't ready for what I saw...trash on the floor, a baby in dirty diapers crawling, mom passed out cold on the couch and her breast exposed. The boy ran over and covered up mom. I looked in the kitchen area. No stove...a hotplate. No fridge...a cooler. I was sick physically and mentally.

We got the kids some help financially and I swear I kept as close of an eye on that kid as I could...but the other influences were stronger than what I could offer. He never graduated, never played another year for us even though he was one of the best natural athletes I've ever seen. He's been involved in minor scrapes with the law on and off.

We gave him a path out but he couldn't take that step. There were too many other things that he needed to handle when he had no business handling them...the boy was carrying the burden of a grown man from the time he was 10 or so.

How many of us comprehend that? I don't mean feel sorry or sympathasize...I mean how many of us can actually say that we would be strong enough to overcome that? Sure, some people do...Im not saying it doesnt happen. However, more times than not, we lose that kid and end up reading about him later. In 8 years, I've taught or coached over a dozen felons including 1 convicted murderer and 2 up on murder charges now. The scary thing is, I thought we could help them and we came damn close...but the other stuff outweighed us. I would have never ever considered that they were capable of killing.

The path we offer isn't easy...in fact, its one more burden. However, I have a hard time simply saying they made a choice and now have to deal.

That simplification of the situation should lay even more fault at our own feet...if it is that simple, why aren't we helping EVERY kid?
 
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