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Making a Murderer (Netflix)

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Through episode 4 last night.

Intriguing stuff.

So far this docu-series kind of reminds me of the story behind "Brother's Keeper" in the sense of a family being targeted by local/state law enforcement.
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
What are your thoughts on the human remains consistent with the bones in his backyard being found way off site? Why would he either A) burn the body off site and transport it to his house, or B) burn it at his house and transport few remains away.
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That's a tough one. I suppose he could have attempted to burn the body at the location where she was murdered and found that it didn't go as well as he hoped so he took the body back to the pit where he would have a better chance of disposing it. But that's a good point. This case really does make it so hard to put together a consistent, believable theory about what happened.
 
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Alright just finished it...

I have an extremely hard time with conspiracies; big or small. I also realize that this is entirely one sided point of view. But I have to be missing something huge from the prosecutor's side.

They left far too much doubt. This felt like one of those trials that the murder charge would be not guilty but other charges would put him away until he was 80 years old. But every motion that has been filed has been dismissed, so there must be evidence that ties it together to overcome the obvious missteps.

Without looking at procedural issues; Steven is the obvious first person to look at. I get that he isn't the sharpest crayon in the cookie jar -- or something like that -- but how stupid do you have to be to...
1. Murder someone...
2. That you will be the last person to have seen her... and many others know she was going to be at your place...AS PART OF HER JOB
3. ON YOUR FREAKING PROPERTY
4. Then keep her vehicle on your property, without using the crusher that you can run
5. Right before you are going to win a huge amount of money; even if it's $1M of the $36M being sought

Now

The entire organization of Maniwhateverthehell County looks conniving and incompetent. I don't think the department(s) committed the murder and then set up the entire frame job. But I think a member of the Avery clan committed the murder (could very possibly be Steven) and then the police/detectives tried to make their case rock solid as OH1O suggested and tried to help it along. They showed the one guy, Tardych (sp?) that was sketchy and within the last few days Steven has come out and said he thinks it was his Brother and Brother In Law (Tardych) and his theory of motive was along the lines of criminal and sexual assault history, money, and something about the ex-girlfriend Jodi that disappeared from the documentary after they broke up.

edit: Add TMZ story - not saying its valid, just more fodder for this already out of control situation.
http://www.tmz.com/2016/01/06/steven-avery-brothers-murder-teresa-halbach/

By the way, when does Jerry Springer jump out, Punk'd style?
 
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UpNorth_Buckeye said:
WHOA! How about a spoiler alert in a spoiler alert! Wolverine Mike probably hasn't seen pulp fiction!

As for my thoughts so far:

I'm only 2 episodes in, but what left me scratching my head is why the hell would a man who knows what going back to prison would he like leave so many bread crumbs to a murder he committed? I won't question him committing the crime, because people do stupid [Mark May]. But he must have the car keys in his hand, right? And then decides to lazily toss them next to his bed? Why not toss them in the blazing fire? Or drive miles away and bury them in a ditch? And the car? Isn't his entire life revolved around dealing with cars? Couldn't he have dismantled the car to a state of no recognition? But instead he puts some branches over it, all while leaving a convenient blood sample next to the steering wheel? Huh?

Also, something that I didn't understand (and they perhaps touch on later) is the dropping of his civil suit for the wrongful imprisonment. It seems to just go away. Now I know you can't compensate on a crime, but it's not illegal to be compensated while being convicted of a crime unrelated to the compensation. And even if he was convicted of murder, was he still not the center of police manipulation costing him 18 years of his life?
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Not sure if it was answered, but he settled for the extremely small amount so he could pay for his lawyers
 
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What's going on yet?

I have no idea if Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey did it. Steven Avery comes across as a terrible person in the documentary, and even worse when you read more background on his past. Maybe they did. I tend to believe that even if they did complete the crimes as described, this dynamic duo would not have the foresight, or ability, to minimize the physical evidence to the extent that they did. I understand the lack of mental capacity of both individuals. I can't get inside their heads to figure out their thought processes because nothing adds up.

What I have the hardest time believing is the Rav4. Everything about the Rav4. Supposedly Avery and Dassey are able to completely scrub the garage and house of all physical evidence of their crimes (except for the lone bullet with DNA), yet the Rav4 with visible blood stains is parked near the front of the property and covered with plywood and tree limbs. I'd argue that if they did commit the rape and murder, then it was likely done off site. But why bring the body back to burn, in two different sites on the property, and keep the Rav4? Some murderers like to keep mementos of the crime, but you don't keep the car.

Even Avery, being the dumbass he is, knows this. He knows this because he's worked in salvage his entire life. He understands cars and dealing in cars, even if he doesn't understand a whole lot else in this word. He understands buying and selling cars, he understands dismantling cars, and he understands titles and what VIN numbers do. This couldn't be a foreign concept to him. 80% of the cars on the yard probably have VINs, based on age. Yet, despite all this, the State alleges he murdered Halbach and kept the vehicle in tact in the yard.

The Rav4 is found in tact. Plates are off it, but it barely has a scratch on it. Avery knows what VINs are. He knows where VIN numbers are. This family dismantles cars for a living. It's the only thing they knew. You can't disassemble, or crush, the car? The whole documentary shows the family disassembling cars. He's not planning on driving the Rav4 off the property if he's taken the battery out. It doesn't need to be in tact. A hammer, a rock, an alternator, anything, through the windshield gets your access to the VIN number. These guys deal in junk. The only assumption I'm going to make here is that the Averys aren't unfamiliar with making cars hard to identify (ones obtained by questionable or criminal means). Even if they have never done it, they know it can be done.

Additionally, Avery scrubs all evidence of the crimes from everywhere, except for the Rav4? Why not torch the Rav4? OK, maybe it would draw undue attention from the neighbors and family if a car is on fire on the property. They burn cabinets, tires, wires, with the body, but can't tear the carpet or dash out of the Rav 4? He's show the propensity to mutilate a human corpse, but isn't bothered to pull bloody carpet from the victims vehicle?

Maybe they did commit the crimes, but it isn't beyond a reasonable doubt. The case wasn't made entirely by their mistakes, since the Sheriff's office has to be involved with at least planting or disturbing evidence.
 
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There is 100% no way the crimes happened the way those shitbag prosecutors say they happened. It's completely impossible. Obviously nobody knows what did happen except for whoever did it, but there's just no way their argument should have ever held up in court.....or in any of the appeals. That's what really blows my mind. Obviously the cops and the court had it out for Avery, but the people who have no skin in the game are still fucking him and Dassey over.

There's a guy from my neck of the woods who killed his wife on 9/11/01. He 100% did it. Their divorce was finalizing within the week, where he'd have to pay her multi-millions; she was cheating on him; he was a known woman abuser. Yet this guy is out of jail after being convicted, granted a new trial on a bogus appeal, convicted again, granted another new trial on an even more bogus appeal, and his new trial ended in a mistrial. But this asshole has money, and Steven Avery is dirt poor.
 
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Regardless of whether you think there was a conspiracy to frame or not, it seems clear this was an obvious case of prosecutorial and police negligence at best and very likely outright misconduct.

It's an example of the US legal system at its worst and it happens far too often.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ed_him_a_new_trial_would_modern_forensic.html

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/richard-glossip-and-the-end-of-the-death-penalty

Meanwhile you've got the affluenza kid running around- like a lot of things, money makes all the difference in the legal system.
 
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I'm 3 episodes in, and this is my biggest issue so far:

If they slit her throat like Dassey "confessed" to and other stuff, there would have been blood all over the mattress at least, if not the room and the trailer in general. There's just no way they managed to scrub the place that well and then didn't clean the Rav4, especially with Avery's knowledge of cars. Also, the thing with the key not being seen until the Manitowoc officer who was searching the place with the Calumet officers moved the slippers, even though other officers had moved them before and not seen them...yeah, that's not suspicious at all.
 
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