Large Terrorist attack in Paris

[Saw31]

Then that leaves only one true solution.

You would have to kill every single member of ISIS, combatant affiliation or not. Every single person, man, woman and child, that lives under their thumb.

I even hesitate to use the word 'solution'.

That is an exaggeration. There are plenty of Muslims who would help destroy ISIS with us. We need to be in those refugee camps recruiting right now. Fathers looking to save their families who would return to Syria as agents. Dangle whatever carrot gets the volunteers. There is not 1.6 billion Muslims at war with us. We need to do what it takes to get the 1.59 billion other Muslims to help. And we need to stay there once we win. You don't tell the enemy "we're leaving next August". You make sure they understand we will stay 50 years if we have to.

 

[Mike80]

There were no moderates in PAGAD either, Mike. You may forget that bin Laden congratulates them in his first video message to the West. Over two years, we had more than one bomb a week in Cape Town, most of which were small but a few big ones like the Planet Hollywood bombings. In fairness, PAGAD denied in involvement in most of the bombings, but few believed them. They set out to take out drug kingpins, prostitution, and Western influences in their communities.

Mandela recognized the positive influences of Islam. MOderate Muslim voices spoke out and he walked side-by-side with them in public marches through their communities.

That's why, when my Dad went into a coma on 9/11 died later that day, it was Muslim friends who reached out to help.

I experience Muslims every day and I firmly believe that the only way forward is to plan the end game much better than the US has done so far.

You believe what you want. You're completely ignoring the fact that ISIS is unlike any ideology this world has ever seen with the possible exception of the most hardcore Nazis.

They don't give a shit about being moderate - they'll kill ANYONE who doesn't want to destroy all culture in the world. They've burned fellow Sunni adherents alive, which is a mortal sin in Islam. Hell ISIS celebrates whenever anything happens against anyone whether they did it or not.

This is unlike anything you or I have ever seen and there really is no way to deal with, talk to or otherwise moderate these psychopaths. They only understand death. No amount of talking is going to change ISIS.

Sorry to read that about your father. I'm glad you've been able to find some moderate Islamic people in your life - I know a couple Muslims myself - all of whom are absolutely appalled by ISIS and what it stands for. But ISIS itself won't be moderated. It's gone to far for that.

 

[Mac]

You believe what you want. You're completely ignoring the fact that ISIS is unlike any ideology this world has ever seen with the possible exception of the most hardcore Nazis.

They don't give a [Mark May] about being moderate - they'll kill ANYONE who doesn't want to destroy all culture in the world. They've burned fellow Sunni adherents alive, which is a mortal sin in Islam. Hell ISIS celebrates whenever anything happens against anyone whether they did it or not.

This is unlike anything you or I have ever seen and there really is no way to deal with, talk to or otherwise moderate these psychopaths. They only understand death. No amount of talking is going to change ISIS.

Sorry to read that about your father. I'm glad you've been able to find some moderate Islamic people in your life - I know a couple Muslims myself - all of whom are absolutely appalled by ISIS and what it stands for. But ISIS itself won't be moderated. It's gone to far for that.

Maybe if we offer McDonalds all day breakfast they will reconsider?

 

[Mike80]

Maybe if we offer McDonalds all day breakfast they will reconsider?

Hell that might make them fight harder....

 

[AKAK]

Maybe if we offer McDonalds all day breakfast they will reconsider?

What good is all day breakfast without sausage mcmuffins

 

[Mike80]

That is an exaggeration. There are plenty of Muslims who would help destroy ISIS with us. We need to be in those refugee camps recruiting right now. Fathers looking to save their families who would return to Syria as agents. Dangle whatever carrot gets the volunteers. There is not 1.6 billion Muslims at war with us. We need to do what it takes to get the 1.59 billion other Muslims to help. And we need to stay there once we win. You don't tell the enemy "we're leaving next August". You make sure they understand we will stay 50 years if we have to.

This. We've had a trend since Vietnam, one which Bin Laden bet his life on (and lost), one which Saddam was waiting for (and ultimately lost) and hopefully one which will eventually play out with ISIS.

Our enemies think they can outlast us. Hell they DID in Iraq, because our political class (all of them) got weak in the knees.

 

[BIATCHabutuka]

So why in the world do we give so much of a fuck that Assad must go.

He gave up his chemical weapons to the Russians.

Let the dictator do some dicktastin' and do whatever in his lands. They have offered up elections, but those aren't going to get Assad to go so we won't go there.


Drop the Assad and Syria shit and partner up with the Russians. It is their backyard, let them lead the dance at least a little bit.

Stop arming rebels in a foreign land in violation of international treaty and US law.

Stop regime changing anybody else and even I would relent on letting us have a little military playground permanently in Libya and Iraq as part of a stabilization force.

Drop the Ukraine shit too. That is all the State Department. Crimea voted to join Russia. They shouldn't have to go along with our color revolution if they don't want to.

When we do this type of shit though, it is hard to want to let us do anything, even the right thing.

 

[Buckeneye]

That is an exaggeration. There are plenty of Muslims who would help destroy ISIS with us. We need to be in those refugee camps recruiting right now. Fathers looking to save their families who would return to Syria as agents. Dangle whatever carrot gets the volunteers. There is not 1.6 billion Muslims at war with us. We need to do what it takes to get the 1.59 billion other Muslims to help. And we need to stay there once we win. You don't tell the enemy "we're leaving next August". You make sure they understand we will stay 50 years if we have to.

I'm not saying all Muslims, you're mistaking me.

Everyone under the thumb of ISIS.

It won't be easy, but you take out those attacking you. We won't be killing children and ISIS uses women for their bodies, not for military actions.

This is truly a death cult. It sucks, but someone is going to have to do it or more attacks like Paris will happen, and it's only a matter of time until it happens over here.

Again, your belief that stopping ISIS as a military movement just simply won't work. You're fighting against, quite possibly the most hardline religious zealots in history. You don't think there aren't women
living under their version of Sharia law that actually believe their way of life is correct? That they somehow aren't passing these beliefs onto their children at an early age?

Fighting ISIS will be like fighting an infectious plague. You can contain it, minimize it, then it will eventually sprout up again somewhere. Or you can go the....'hardcore' route, quarantine and eliminate all hosts of this disease.

I'm not saying its the right thing to do, I'm merely playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Mike80]

I'm not saying all Muslims, you're mistaking me.

Everyone under the thumb of ISIS.



Again, your belief that simply stopping ISIS as a military movement simply won't work. You're fighting against, quite possibly the most hardline religious zealots in history. You don't think there aren't women
living under their version of Sharia law that actually believe their way of life is correct? That they somehow aren't passing these beliefs onto their children at an early age?

Fighting ISIS will be like fighting an infectious plague. You can contain it, minimize it, then it will eventually sprout up again somewhere. Or you can go the....'hardcore' route, quarantine and eliminate all hosts of this disease.

I'm not saying its the right thing to do, I'm merely playing devil's advocate here.

Whatim saying is we are going to have toconfront them militarily and then be a stabilizing force afterward. It doesnt stop at the last bullet....

 

[MililaniBuckeye]

What some of you need to go do is buy a ticket to some Muslim country. Get your passport, go live there for 6 months minimum.

I hate to say this but there are a lot of opinions in this thread. But not a lot of truly educated opinions. Americans cannot relate whatsoever to people in the middle east and their problems. There is that much of a difference between us (Europe included) and the rest of the world. You are so spoiled and have no idea. Spoiled with an education, safety, a life of a thousand years of knowledge, art, and free thought.

It's naturally western to believe that people all over the world have similar sensibilities. It just makes sense. I'm not insulting anyone. Just pointing out that you are dealing with an alien culture and people.

I've driven through two borderline third-world countries--Philippines and Thailand--and I don't see any Filipinos or Thais flying plane into buildings or committing mass public bombings. I don't give a shit how bad you may have it in your country, that in no way gives you any excuse to go out and attack innocent civilians in another country.

 

[LovelandBuckeye]

Well, I guess I should dust off the old duffel bags and ruck. May need to visit the ME again.

 

[Buckeneye]

Whatim saying is we are going to have toconfront them militarily and then be a stabilizing force afterward. It doesnt stop at the last bullet....

I get that. My point is, if you believe you can defeat ISIS without going the, shall we say .... 'cleansing' route - then the only other option is to confront them with military and then as Steve has brilliantly pointed out,
attempt to initiate change within the countries and communities. A process that will take generations.

 

[Saw31]

I'm not saying all Muslims, you're mistaking me.

Everyone under the thumb of ISIS.



Again, your belief that stopping ISIS as a military movement just simply won't work. You're fighting against, quite possibly the most hardline religious zealots in history. You don't think there aren't women
living under their version of Sharia law that actually believe their way of life is correct? That they somehow aren't passing these beliefs onto their children at an early age?

Fighting ISIS will be like fighting an infectious plague. You can contain it, minimize it, then it will eventually sprout up again somewhere. Or you can go the....'hardcore' route, quarantine and eliminate all hosts of this disease.

I'm not saying its the right thing to do, I'm merely playing devil's advocate here.

My belief is that ISIS, like any other movement, has a limited supply of leaders and organizers. Most people are followers, and while a determined follower is certainly dangerous, the talent is at the top. Eliminate the talented ISIS speakers and organizers. Dry up the money. A determined follower can not build a bomb vest if there is no one to teach him or pay for it...

 

[Bleed S & G]

Edit: agree they will organize and come here eventually and this France thing wasn't some bozos on the internet. Still, I prefer to fight on the home court if I need to fight anyway so bring it the fuck on. If we are going to fight, let's fight on familiar turf and with out the supply lines.

I would prefer not to come home to my house blown up or get news that Mom & Dad had their heads removed from their shoulders. That's the only thing, as a fellow non-internationalist, that makes sense to me. Bring the fight to them and keep them off our soil. That is the only "win" in our 'war against terror', so far - IMHO.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

I've driven through two borderline third-world countries--Philippines and Thailand--and I don't see any Filipinos or Thais flying plane into buildings or committing mass public bombings. I don't give a [Mark May] how bad you may have it in your country, that in no way gives you any excuse to go out and attack innocent civilians in another country.

I sure as hell don't think @BoxCar_Willie was saying attacking innocents is excused. I took him to be saying that in order to efficiently and effectively defeat this problem one would do well to understand what the problem is beyond the obvious.