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Large Terrorist attack in Paris

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Saw31 said:
My belief is that ISIS, like any other movement, has a limited supply of leaders and organizers. Most people are followers, and while a determined follower is certainly dangerous, the talent is at the top. Eliminate the talented ISIS speakers and organizers. Dry up the money. A determined follower can not build a bomb vest if there is no one to teach him or pay for it...
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There's your first problem then. I don't believe this lot can be approach like any other 'movement'. Simply because this isn't a movement, its a belief structure and way of life so deeply ingrained that it will spread like a wildfire to anyone in its path.

Kill the leaders? Someone will step in. Dry up the money? You'll see attacks by suicide groups using knives. Bomb vests? Somebody will get their hands on guns regardless.
They are to kill or convert ANYONE not like them or living under their Sharia. It's that easy.
You can give them rocks and sharp sticks, they'll still look to kill those whom they feel can be under their rule or an afront to their religious principles.

Bullets don't silence ideas. I guess that line from The Dark Knight finally has real world application. "Some men just want to watch the world burn".
 
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BIATCHabutuka said:
Yet we are friends with Sunni like the Saudis right?
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Fuck the Saudi's. Follow the paper trail of money from 9/11. I think 15 of 19 hijackers were Saudi's, too.

This is one of the problems with the "right wing" efforts over-seas. I call bullshit on fighting "terrorist." We leave the Saudi's alone, we leave Pakistan alone - but we invade Iraq? We sell the arms to ISIS, we train Al Qadea.. I mean.. c'mon. What am I missing? I don't like being ignorant, and I know that I don't know - so, what am I missing?
 
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Buckeneye said:
Bullets don't silence ideas.
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So everything I've read you posted, is like screw it. Nothing we can do. Someone get's attacked again, screw it, we can't do anything about it.

Well, I'm willing to go there and try. I'd be a fool to allow another attack somewhere else, or even here at home again and to have even a little chance that my family or wife is in danger by a group of people set on destruction. You have your opinion, but I am absolutely willing to head over there a 7th time and will continue to, to at least try and stop the madness and to keep my own family safe.
 
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Buckeneye said:
There's your first problem then. I don't believe this lot can be approach like any other 'movement'. Simply because this isn't a movement, its a belief structure and way of life so deeply ingrained that it will spread like a wildfire to anyone in its path.

Kill the leaders? Someone will step in. Dry up the money, you'll see attacks by suicide groups using knives. Bomb vests? Somebody will get their hands on guns regardless.

Bullets don't silence ideas. I guess that line from The Dark Knight finally has real world application. "Some men just want to watch the world burn".
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It seems you don't have the historical perspective here. Nazism was an idea every bit as fanatical as ISIS. Nazism's reach was infinitely larger than is ISIS' reach. A bullet sure as fuck can kill an idea.

But to the rest of your post; It seems like a "throw your hands up and resign ourselves to this" philosophy. That is not/will not fly. Ever.

I guess that line from The Dark Knight finally has real world application.
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Finally? This has been the case throughout human history.

I mow my lawn knowing full well I'll have to do it again. I mow the lawn so not to have rats and snakes and every other dangerous vermin at my doors. I do not stop because those vermin will just be replaced by other vermin. This is the real world. There will be men of ill will always. We must continue to mow the lawn. It is fantasy to believe that there are solutions to men's evil. That doesn't mean you stop fighting that evil.
 
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EidoloN said:
So everything I've read you posted, is like screw it. Nothing we can do. Someone get's attacked again, screw it, we can't do anything about it.

Well, I'm willing to go there and try. I'd be a fool to allow another attack somewhere else, or even here at home again and to have even a little chance that my family or wife is in danger by a group of people set on destruction. You have your opinion, but I am absolutely willing to head over there a 7th time and will continue to, to at least try and stop the madness and to keep my own family safe.
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Clearly you didn't read a damn thing I posted then.


Saw31 said:
It seems you don't have the historical perspective here. Nazism was an idea every bit as fanatical as ISIS.
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Bullshit. Hitler had HOW many assassinations attempts on him by his own officers and party members? Have we heard of any type of power struggle or lack of cohesion/direction within ISIS to 'that' degree?
No. The Nazi's were beaten by how you mentioned, cut the head off of the snake. Military action against a clear and defined target with a leadership structure that (more importantly) operated as a traditional military.

These people (ISIS) don't give two fucks whether they live or not. If they kill you in the process, then mission complete.
You're talking about going to war with an enemy that believes dying for the cause its own reward and ultimately their end game.

Does that sound anything like the Nazi's to you?
 
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Buckeneye said:
Clearly you didn't read a damn thing I posted then.




Bull[Mark May]. Hitler had HOW many assassinations attempts on him by his own officers and party members? Have we heard of any type of power struggle or lack of cohesion/direction within ISIS to 'that' degree?
No. The Nazi's were beaten by how you mentioned, cut the head off of the snake. Military action against a clear and defined target with a leadership structure that (more importantly) operated as a traditional military.

These people (ISIS) don't give two fucks whether they live or not. If they kill you in the process, then mission complete.
You're talking about going to war with an enemy that believes dying for the cause its own reward and ultimately their end game.

Does that sound anything like the Nazi's to you?
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You getting lost in the details of the ideologies. Its meaningless.

There are whole populations fighting ISIS. Doesn't matter who chops off the head of the organization. Again, 1.59 billion Muslims have no interest in being ruled by ISIS. It is our task and challenge to mobilize that.



And I agree. Heading to the Buckeye thread. This is my last post for now.
 
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Buckeyeskickbuttocks said:
I sure as hell don't think @BoxCar_Willie was saying attacking innocents is excused. I took him to be saying that in order to efficiently and effectively defeat this problem one would do well to understand what the problem is beyond the obvious.
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He said "What some of you need to go do is buy a ticket to some Muslim country." No we don't...
 
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http://deadspin.com/report-suicide-bomber-tried-to-enter-france-germany-ga-1742547133

Don't know if that was posted yet; if so, sorry for repost...

On one hand I think going after ISIS will just create a power vacuum, who will step in next? And on that hand I say I don't care....blow em up. Torture them, put that on TV, mail it to their families, take the high ups and drop them in San Quentin or Corcoran for a weekend in GP.
 
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bigdog3300 said:
http://deadspin.com/report-suicide-bomber-tried-to-enter-france-germany-ga-1742547133

Don't know if that was posted yet; if so, sorry for repost...

On one hand I think going after ISIS will just create a power vacuum, who will step in next? And on that hand I say I don't care....blow em up. Torture them, put that on TV, mail it to their families, take the high ups and drop them in San Quentin or Corcoran for a weekend in GP.
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I understand the frustration, but that is how you lose world opinion and lose the end game.
 
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Factoring in the present value of social security, medicare, and medicaid, benefits due to veterans and other unfunded liabilities, the US is technically bankrupt already Mike. The US can't afford another adventure. There are zero degrees of freedom. And, if a Republican is elected president, there will be the same realities to face. That ship has sailed.
 
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