If defensive staff changes are coming, who should OSU be looking to hire?

[buckeyebri]

I'm sure they had a staff meeting regarding the potential hires, but ultimately, it's Urban's ship.

This is how I see it, it is Urban's call and if he thinks he is the right coach for the position and to represent the University then I respect that.

Sometimes second opportunities have a way of cleansing people's souls and generating a new sense of self.

 

[OHSportsFan]

I truly understand the viewpoints of all posters here, with the exception of labeling of the LJSr. negative recruiting as "message board rumors." I realize many of our posters were not around when this happened or were not privy to that information at the time, so I will explain. This was confirmed by numerous, independent sources who were very close the recruitment of players such as Devon Still, Navarro Bowman, and A.J. Wallace (and a few others). He flat out told them that Ohio State, both in the athletic programs and in the educational realm, are racist and if football did not work out for those players, OSU would turn their backs on them. He used phony statistics and completely unsubstantiated claims on players that were at the time favoring us.

I understand that recruiting is going to get dirty but using untrue, racially charged claims like he did crossed the line. I am no stranger to recruiting and what goes on...Larry Johnson crossed the line of permissible recruiting tactics. I am of the opinion that some things transcend football and that racial relations is one of those things. You can claim football is a "business" all you want and I mostly agree. But again, instigating racial tensions with 16-18 year old kids also trumps "business."

As for the rest: I have no knowledge or inkling if he was involved in the coverup. I do know LJ Sr. is objectively an outstanding coach that is probably the best recruiter of the Atlantic Coast that is out there. He kills it in MD, D.C., VA, and in the New England states particularly. I really have no doubts he will be incredible in those areas at OSU and perhaps even better with our resources and talent available. In terms of coaching prowess, recruiting ability, and likelihood of continuity, this is a homerun hire. With Holley, we did back off in the past but I know Johnson will want him in this class and frankly, I want him in this class too. While I prefer Thomas, I think Knadi is a longer shot and I have no preference. All this being said, I really don't like the hire. While he might have been the best hire in terms of coaching and recruiting, I am never going to forget his past and I think the cons outweigh the pros, although the pros are substantial. If you like this hire, I can understand why. If you hate it, I can understand that too. I hope he cuts out the racially charged recruiting tactics and produces a very successful defensive front for us. However, that does not mean I am all of the sudden ok with him.

Don't think it can be said better.

I'm not ready to just turn the page on the guy like that. It's a disappointing hire from a character standpoint, and I'm not willing to just dismiss that. Maybe after some positive reviews and media clippings and hearing good things from recruits (on both sides) I can begin to accept him as a person.

Or at least until that first sack in Fall.

 

[RB07OSU]

Don't think it can be said better.

I'm not ready to just turn the page on the guy like that. It's a disappointing hire from a character standpoint, and I'm not willing to just dismiss that. Maybe after some positive reviews and media clippings and hearing good things from recruits (on both sides) I can begin to accept him as a person.

Or at least until that first sack in Fall.

Agreed...I'm not saying I will never come around on it, but I better not hear about him doing the same crap on the recruiting trails here that he did at PSU. I really hope UFM would not allow that. And if he cuts it out and produces a great DL and continues to recruit well, then I will come around on him. I just want a coach that is going to do things the right way and if he is willing to do that, I am willing to forgive the past.

 

[jlb1705]

I truly understand the viewpoints of all posters here, with the exception of labeling of the LJSr. negative recruiting as "message board rumors." I realize many of our posters were not around when this happened or were not privy to that information at the time, so I will explain. This was confirmed by numerous, independent sources who were very close the recruitment of players such as Devon Still, Navarro Bowman, and A.J. Wallace (and a few others). He flat out told them that Ohio State, both in the athletic programs and in the educational realm, are racist and if football did not work out for those players, OSU would turn their backs on them. He used phony statistics and completely unsubstantiated claims on players that were at the time favoring us.

I understand that recruiting is going to get dirty but using untrue, racially charged claims like he did crossed the line. I am no stranger to recruiting and what goes on...Larry Johnson crossed the line of permissible recruiting tactics. I am of the opinion that some things transcend football and that racial relations is one of those things. You can claim football is a "business" all you want and I mostly agree. But again, instigating racial tensions with 16-18 year old kids also trumps "business."

As for the rest: I have no knowledge or inkling if he was involved in the coverup. I do know LJ Sr. is objectively an outstanding coach that is probably the best recruiter of the Atlantic Coast that is out there. He kills it in MD, D.C., VA, and in the New England states particularly. I really have no doubts he will be incredible in those areas at OSU and perhaps even better with our resources and talent available. In terms of coaching prowess, recruiting ability, and likelihood of continuity, this is a homerun hire. With Holley, we did back off in the past but I know Johnson will want him in this class and frankly, I want him in this class too. While I prefer Thomas, I think Knadi is a longer shot and I have no preference. All this being said, I really don't like the hire. While he might have been the best hire in terms of coaching and recruiting, I am never going to forget his past and I think the cons outweigh the pros, although the pros are substantial. If you like this hire, I can understand why. If you hate it, I can understand that too. I hope he cuts out the racially charged recruiting tactics and produces a very successful defensive front for us. However, that does not mean I am all of the sudden ok with him.

Well said RB. It's time to start tracking down all those old links to refresh people's memories.

Please do track down those links, because I was around at that time and I don't recall anybody putting their name behind those allegations. That's why I used the term "message board rumors." I'm perfectly willing to be corrected on this.

In another thread somebody said they were eager to hear Johnson address this matter and that he'd have to answer for it now. The only person who would have access to ask such questions that I think would lend enough credence to the allegations would be Dave Biddle.

 

[MaxBuck]

I'm eager to hear nothing whatever from Johnson about such rumors. Just as I'm eager to hear no such rumors again.

 

[Taosman]

Stop flinging that around. Do you think he would've been kept at PSU if he was included? You're trying to find any reason to not like the hire.

Most of the coaches had knowledge of what was going on for years. How could they not? They didn't cover it up like the administration and Paterno. But they did remain quiet about it. So LJ is not without some blame. And that's what bothers me and others here. By keeping quiet about molestation you are enabling. Make no mistake, all those on that staff are "tainted". Does this and the dirty recruiting tactics speak to his character?

 

[buchtelgrad04]

Most of the coaches had knowledge of what was going on for years. How could they not? They didn't cover it up like the administration and Paterno. But they did remain quiet about it. So LJ is not without some blame. And that's what bothers me and others here. By keeping quiet about molestation you are enabling. Make no mistake, all those on that staff are "tainted". Does this and the dirty recruiting tactics speak to his character?

How do you know he knew, though? If there's something I didn't see, please point me in the proper direction.

Although on a far less extreme, should Luke and the rest of the Tressel gang receive blame too? Surely Jim told one of them.

 

[Taosman]

How do you know he knew, though? If there's something I didn't see, please point me in the proper direction.

Although on a far less extreme, should Luke and the rest of the Tressel gang receive blame too? Surely Jim told one of them.

The coaches joked about ol Jer and warned people to "keep their kids" away from Jer. It was going on for years and the coaches all knew about it except for the young assistant coach, McQueary, who caught Jer in the shower with a young boy.

"American Horror Story" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/opinion/dowd-american-horror-story.html
"It’s hard to believe that a monster like Sandusky was harbored by Happy Valley for so long. It was an open joke in Penn State football circles that you shouldn’t drop your soap in the shower when Jerry was around. "
"Only the boys in the shower weren’t laughing."

 

[Taosman]

On to Coach Ash. Sounds like a very good hire. I guess he'll be the safeties coach, also? The friendship with Tom Herman must have really helped his cause.

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Please do track down those links, because I was around at that time and I don't recall anybody putting their name behind those allegations. That's why I used the term "message board rumors." I'm perfectly willing to be corrected on this.

In another thread somebody said they were eager to hear Johnson address this matter and that he'd have to answer for it now. The only person who would have access to ask such questions that I think would lend enough credence to the allegations would be Dave Biddle.

I guess what baffles me about it is that almost everyone seemed to be perfectly willing to accept those rumors as gospel while he was at Penn State, but now that he's at Ohio State, it was all just rumor and innuendo and nothing was ever substantiated.

Nobody had any difficulty believing it was true and disliking him for it when those stories first popped up, but now it's not a big deal?

 

[MaxBuck]

Nobody had any difficulty believing it was true and disliking him for it when those stories first popped up, but now it's not a big deal?

I had no difficulty believing it to be true while he was at Penn State, but now it's not a big deal ... because he's not at Penn State.

Hope that clears things up for you, ferret.

 

[jlb1705]

I guess what baffles me about it is that almost everyone seemed to be perfectly willing to accept those rumors as gospel while he was at Penn State, but now that he's at Ohio State, it was all just rumor and innuendo and nothing was ever substantiated.

Nobody had any difficulty believing it was true and disliking him for it when those stories first popped up, but now it's not a big deal?

Very true. I'm not ashamed of asking the questions I'm asking now though, I'm ashamed of not asking them earlier. That's one of my failings as and admitted hypocrite college football fan. I don't recall participating in that kind of discussion (maybe somebody will dig up some posts I made in the past) but at the very least I was a bystander while people were discussing it and didn't express any skepticism back then. To me though if the things he has said/done are as serious as the critics in this thread say they are, then they deserve to have somebody's name behind them - and no, Dave Biddle doesn't count.

In my IMO, anonymous "trusted" sources or posts made behind an alias on a semi-private, premium message board are not good enough to make me take an allegation like this one seriously. Again, if somebody brings some additional information to the discussion, I'm willing to reconsider my current position.

To look at your question about skepticism from a different angle, we treat the most trivial information (like where a kid is thinking about going to school) from those kind of channels with a healthy dose of skepticism, so why should we not treat serious accusations about a man's integrity with at least the same amount of skepticism that we give to the trivial things?

 

[Fungo Squiggly]

Very true. I'm not ashamed of asking the questions I'm asking now though, I'm ashamed of not asking them earlier. That's one of my failings as and admitted hypocrite college football fan. I don't recall participating in that kind of discussion (maybe somebody will dig up some posts I made in the past) but at the very least I was a bystander while people were discussing it and didn't express any skepticism back then. To me though if the things he has said/done are as serious as the critics in this thread say they are, then they deserve to have somebody's name behind them - and no, Dave Biddle doesn't count.

In my IMO, anonymous "trusted" sources or posts made behind an alias on a semi-private, premium message board are not good enough to make me take an allegation like this one seriously. Again, if somebody brings some additional information to the discussion, I'm willing to reconsider my current position.

To look at your question about skepticism from a different angle, we treat the most trivial information (like where a kid is thinking about going to school) from those kind of channels with a healthy dose of skepticism, so why should we not treat serious accusations about a man's integrity with at least the same amount of skepticism that we give to the trivial things?

Fair enough. Just like with every other type of info, people will believe what they want to believe, and find any way they can to discredit something that doesn't jive with that.

Edit- that's not directed at anyone in particular - just a general comment.

 

[CookyPuss]

I guess what baffles me about it is that almost everyone seemed to be perfectly willing to accept those rumors as gospel while he was at Penn State, but now that he's at Ohio State, it was all just rumor and innuendo and nothing was ever substantiated.

Nobody had any difficulty believing it was true and disliking him for it when those stories first popped up, but now it's not a big deal?

Confirmation bias. It's worth a Google.

 

[Buckeyeskickbuttocks]

Fair enough. Just like with every other type of info, people will believe what they want to believe, and find any way they can to discredit something that doesn't jive with that.

Edit- that's not directed at anyone in particular - just a general comment.

Despite the fact that I agree with you on that point, I think you're wrong................ and suck at life.