How Do You Defend the Spread Offense?

[spotpass]

Missed tackles, indecision in space, and DBs caught napping made Heacock look like the idiot. However, its always easier to say a coach is clueless...

that's true. I feel good knowing the plan seemed like a good one - they just need to work hard on executing it. I'm sure our guys will

 

[BuckTwenty]

Or as my dad has said too many times over the years to count. "They run the option, hit the QB till he doesn't want to run the option anymore." Never pass up a free hit on the QB.

A great example would be Colt McCoy, Jammal Charles, and the Texas Longhorns last year. They ran the option quite a bit against us early, and it was working. That is, until Colt decided not to pitch it one time (in the first quarter, I believe) and got absolutely crushed.

They didn't run the option for the rest of the game.

 

[GoodLifeSean]

The best way in my opinion is to run a 3-4 or 3-3-4 with a spy in between the 3-3... It provides you a chance to spread it out or attack, and always keep an eye on that damn Patrick White. a 3-3-4 spy is what my old school ran to contain the spread option on insanely fast qbs, and it worked almost every time. I'm just not sold on the 3-3-5 in my mind that's called a nickel.

 

[osugrad21]

I'm just not sold on the 3-3-5 in my mind that's called a nickel.

Personnel-wise, I agree. Philosophy-wise, they are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

The versatility is what is so attractive...you can run go from a 3-4 cover 2 shell to a 5-3 cover 3 to a 4-3 cover 4 shell without switching personnel at all...and more importantly, you can show anything pre-snap before shifting/rolling to a completely different front/coverage.

However, just like the spread option, it is often times high risk--high reward type stuff.

 

[BuckeyeNation27]

I don't know jack shit about football Xs and Os.



I just thought I'd get that out there before I asked this question. It seemed like USF would show 1 defense, wait for Pat White to call the play, then they would quickly shift into the defense they were really going to run. Is that something OSU could do, and is that something OSU would do? How much of WVU's offense is dependent on the pre-snap read vs how much it depends on reading the DE and all that after the snap?

 

[unionfutura]

But against IL, we only had one DE on the field.
How do you stop a read option running game with a nickel defense?
Either A - you can't, or B we weren't playing fast or aggressive enough.

Personally, I think the nickel we were in vs IL made it almost impossible for us to stop them on that last drive.
What makes WV borderline unfair is that damn fullback they've got. He gives them so mnay more options and ways to hurt you. He's the guy that makes it so hard to stop White, because he keeps the LBs honest.

I sure hope we get another chance to prove our defense against that type of offense, though. If we do, I sure hope we are more aggressive than against IL.

You can you just hope that that they don't have playmakers in the backfield, otherwise chances are they're better athletes than your linebackers and can make plays. I like the Florida approach to the spread (who would know better than Florida how to defend the spread) versus OSU. They knew our receivers couldn't beat a jam very well, (it helped that Teddy was hurt too, but I still think he would've struggled anyway) so they played tight, took away the first option and made it difficult for Troy to find another option before the DL crashed down. Another thing that made it work was that Troy wasn't a Pat White, he didn't have the speed to burn Florida, and they knew he was a pass first QB, so they didn't respect his running ability like the big ten did.

I think you make the QB run, take away the RB at all costs, and go after the QB.

But make sure against a Pat White, you contain!

 

[lvbuckeye]

I don't know jack shit about football Xs and Os.



I just thought I'd get that out there before I asked this question. It seemed like USF would show 1 defense, wait for Pat White to call the play, then they would quickly shift into the defense they were really going to run. Is that something OSU could do, and is that something OSU would do? How much of WVU's offense is dependent on the pre-snap read vs how much it depends on reading the DE and all that after the snap?

great point. the Illini would wait for us to line up defensively (and we were running in subs based on personnel packages we saw), and then look to the sideline to get the call, which gave them the advantage... what we should have done was gone to more of what the Buffalo Bills have been doing this season, and not show anything pre-snap... heck, last week, the Bills' D-line wasn't even getting down. there were just seven or eight guys standing near the LOS, and the QB never knew who was coming and who was going...

 

[osugrad21]

I just thought I'd get that out there before I asked this question. It seemed like USF would show 1 defense, wait for Pat White to call the play, then they would quickly shift into the defense they were really going to run. Is that something OSU could do, and is that something OSU would do? How much of WVU's offense is dependent on the pre-snap read vs how much it depends on reading the DE and all that after the snap?

Absolutely. We call it "prowling" in our 3-3 and it is a huge part of the defense. That is the defensive answer to the no-huddle offense...not all no-huddles are "hurry up" and that is often overlooked.

heck, last week, the Bills' D-line wasn't even getting down. there were just seven or eight guys standing near the LOS, and the QB never knew who was coming and who was going...

Byrnes HS runs a standup 3-3 with players that can play numerous positions on the field...St. X runs an unorthodox version also with a 3-3-3 stack and an "adjuster" who plays just about anywhere. You cannot account for things that you do not know will be there...

 

[cincibuck]

I would never hope any player gets injured.

Dixon's future is jeopardized, he will have difficulty jogging for the rest of his life.

I wouldn't wish that on anyone for anything, much less a football game.

Then why didn't he wear knee pads? Those things can't slow you down that much, but I see more and more players opting out. It ain't worth it.

 

[NightmaresDad]

"DE" in this instance does not refer solely to those players on the roster designated as Defensive Ends.

If Grant was in a 3-point stance, he is the DE.

The scheme was fine, the execution was very poor. However, I know that is not what you want to hear or believe.

If Grant is lined up at DE (whether or not in a 3-point) and we have two other LBs and 5 DBs, how is that not a nickel?
That is the part of the scheme I had trouble with on that last drive - because there was NO WAY they were going to throw.

If he wants to use Grant or Gibson at DE, then that's fine - as long as there are three more LBs out there as well.
My problem with the scheme is that we didn't sell out more to stop the run on that last series.

And regarding your last comment - I actually do want to hear what you think, very much. I've always respected your knowledge and opinions, but on this one I guess we don't agree.
There are quite a few folks on here that know their football, and I think it's fun to argue the points if we don't agree on something. I don't think there's a need for any of us to act as the official distributor of football right and wrong - and I don't think that happens at BP - but whenever some who see a flaw or an apparent flaw in a scheme or a player suggest something different might work, they have been getting labeled as "bandwagon fans" and the like here lately, and that's not good either.

I have talked to some other "real" coaches who agree that the scheme was flawed at the end of that game, and discussed why and how to fix it next time. Are any of them as accomplished as Jim heacock? Heck no. But that doesn't mean they can't pick up on something that maybe could be done better.

 

[osugrad21]

If Grant is lined up at DE (whether or not in a 3-point) and we have two other LBs and 5 DBs, how is that not a nickel?
That is the part of the scheme I had trouble with on that last drive - because there was NO WAY they were going to throw.

If he wants to use Grant or Gibson at DE, then that's fine - as long as there are three more LBs out there as well.
My problem with the scheme is that we didn't sell out more to stop the run on that last series.

And regarding your last comment - I actually do want to hear what you think, very much. I've always respected your knowledge and opinions, but on this one I guess we don't agree.
There are quite a few folks on here that know their football, and I think it's fun to argue the points if we don't agree on something. I don't think there's a need for any of us to act as the official distributor of football right and wrong - and I don't think that happens at BP - but whenever some who see a flaw or an apparent flaw in a scheme or a player suggest something different might work, they have been getting labeled as "bandwagon fans" and the like here lately, and that's not good either.

I have talked to some other "real" coaches who agree that the scheme was flawed at the end of that game, and discussed why and how to fix it next time. Are any of them as accomplished as Jim heacock? Heck no. But that doesn't mean they can't pick up on something that maybe could be done better.

1) You are still missing my point as the personnel vs. the scheme..but its cool.

2) I didn't realize anyone was acting as the official distributor of football on BP and you try to deflect that nicely...As you said, opinions are exactly that...I expressed mine on both issues. I believe your opinion is flawed on both issues and have provided my solutions/rebuttals to each...you have done nothing bitch about the coaching. Flawed how? Explain this to me...just don't say its flawed without offering your specific solution for further debate. You are now focusing your argument to the end of the game...again, nice.

You're right...we'll just have to disagree.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

Agree that the 3-3-5 is versatile.

Agree that Ohio State didn't take advantage of that versatility against Illinois, especially in the 4th quarter.

But Ohio State doesn't have "southern speed", so they might as well not even bother showing up if they should happen to "back into" the national title game against West Virginia, so it's all a moot point anyway....

 

[ytownbuckeye]

it is assignment football on defense. everyone has a responsibility and must do their part.

 

[Jaxbuck]

All I know is that with a month to get ready for it and the athletes we have on Defense I'll take my chances that we can handle WVU just fine. Grad correct me if I'm wrong but if your front 4 can control the LOS we can run whatever we want to behind it as long as people are minding their assignments and tackling.

other .02:
-I think the Illinois game was due to 1) Juice Williams playing his best game ever and 2) Their style being a complete changeup in the midst of a 5 game power offense stretch.

-That 4th quarter was ugly but they scored 28(21) points, its not like they went completely nuts on us.

-Also WVU's offense doesn't get to play our D in a vacum. Field position and how our offense does against their defense will affect how we do vs the spread quite a bit. I know Juice burned us throwing but I'm willing to wager that Pat White can't do it if we jump out to a lead.

-TB and the offense will play a huge part. I just watched Uconn run right up the gut for huge yardage and then for some reason try and pass on every 3rd and short. I'd really like to see what Beanie and our OL can do vs their D. As someone else stated so well, White can't score without the football.

Sorry if its off topic from the real X's and O's stuff but thats how I see us defending the WVU spread.

 

[LordJeffBuck]

-I think the Illinois game was due to 1) Juice Williams playing his best game ever....

Also, Juice Williams is much, much better at play-action and faking than Pat White. If you go back and look at the Illinois game, Williams had the Buckeye safeties out of position all game long with his play fakes, and that's a major reason why Ohio State lost. That, and of course, losing the battle in the trenches on both sides of the ball.