How Do You Defend the Spread Offense?

[NightmaresDad]

1) You are still missing my point as the personnel vs. the scheme..but its cool.

2) I didn't realize anyone was acting as the official distributor of football on BP and you try to deflect that nicely...As you said, opinions are exactly that...I expressed mine on both issues. I believe your opinion is flawed on both issues and have provided my solutions/rebuttals to each...you have done nothing bitch about the coaching. Flawed how? Explain this to me...just don't say its flawed without offering your specific solution for further debate. You are now focusing your argument to the end of the game...again, nice.

You're right...we'll just have to disagree.

The only thing I've ever "bitched" about regarding the IL game was the end of the game. On this or any other thread.
The rest of the game was a few big plays given up, and 4 bad throws by the QB. Could have been overcome - if we get the ball back.
All I am saying and have said is that for that last series, why not come out in a 4-3 look and personnel and then switch it to a 5-2? Different gap responsibilities and allows for more chance for penetration by the DL. Stop the run and make them either concede, run three plays and punt - or risk a pass or two which would stop the clock if unsuccessful. I don't see the point in running a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 nickel, even with a safety up, if you KNOW they are going to run the ball.

I wouldn't trade Heacock for anybody. I hope he and tOSU defense get the chance to show what they can do against WV. If so, I will be very interested to see how we go about it.

 

[TJnTN]

major key to beating a spread team: the team who scores more points will win the game...

Thank you John Madden!!

 

[NJ-Buckeye]

What ever happened to the "tackle everybody and throw out anyone without a ball" defense?

 

[daveeb]

You know how to stop the spread offense? Don't turn the ball over when you have control of it.

Look at the Florida game. By the way, Florida really did not use the spread offense. Florida got 4 touchdown drives for an average of 34.75 yards each. Of course our defense is going to give up a ton of points when Florida gets easy field position! They only gave up one drive of 71 yards for a touchdown. If our offense is not totally asleep, and Jim Tressel punts the ball away instead of going for it on 4th down, we have a much much MUCH better shot of winning that game. For gods sake, run Pittman!

Look at the Illinois game. Take away the Dufrene fumble touchdown drive and it is 21-21. Take away two drives started by Boeckman interceptions. 21-7.

Michael Robinson got a great 2 yard drive on 3 plays off of a Troy Smith interception.

Texas beat us when we were having a QB controversy.

Let us face facts here: When our offense does not turn the ball over, we win football games. Michigan State was not even close, and we turn the ball over 2 times for 2 touchdowns. In the Miami (FL) game, Krenzel threw two interceptions. One of which was nullified by one of the best football plays ever by #13.

Think about Tressel ball. It is based around keeping control of the football. Don't make mistakes. Don't fumble the ball. Don't throw interceptions. Throw the ball away or take a sack instead. Don't try to force a ball into tight coverage. Play good special teams.

When Ohio State plays the way its coach wants them too, we rarely lose football games.

So yes, hitting Pat White on every play is important. Mixing up defensive formations is important. But, possibly the most important part is not even in the control of the defense. It is the offense that needs to do its part and control the football.

 

[BuckeyeTillIDie]

How do you stop WVU's spread?

Simple answer: You don't.

They are so fast that they will literally fly overtop of defenses and play hot potato with the ball all the way down the field. In fact, they've perfected the spread so well that they can make Harlem Globetrotter-esque moves mid-play. And if you didn't know, Pat White, Steven Slaton, and Noel Devine can run faster than anyone, backwards.

 

[Bestbuck36]

Actually I agree with NightmaresDad regarding a possibility of the 5-2 look. If we walk up Grant onto the TE's side and anchor his ass to the line of scrimmage, that disrupts the timing and allows the Safeties to read play action a little better. Teams will not get outside of us for the most part unless its bubble screen or slants. JL and Freeman are capable of getting outside contain on the option with this type look. If we're talking about one back a slot and TE the same rules apply. Hit them on the line of scrimmage to mess up the timing. I don't believe Pat White could beat us with precision passing for an entire game. Teams with and accurate passer who can run are extremely rare. Also look at who's doing the receiving for these teams. WVU has a couple of decent guys and one good one in Reynaud that we can man up on and put all the pressure on their execution in the backfield. White is injury prone and Slaton is fumble prone. Also, in that matchup their Oline is overmatched and our Oline should easily be able to open holes. We can play ball control and smash mouth football against them as long as we are dictating tempo and creating field position. Keep em guessing as to where the pressure's coming from and put them in long down and distance. Short down and distance will kill you against this type of team in my opinion.

The Illinois game was a fluke in my mind. Williams had a career day and we were unable to adapt, which I blame that both on scheme and inexperience. Gametime adjustments are absolutely essential and I hope our staff can learn from their mistakes should we have to play WVU for all the marbles.

Of course regardless of scheme or assignment, our boys have to come out and play like they want it more than the other team does.

 

[The Traitor]

I think too many people (not on this board, just out there in the general punditocracy) have convinced themselves that Coach Sweater Vest and the Buckeyes cannot stop the spread. From what I've seen the last few years this team does not have an Achilles' heel, and if they did, it certainly wouldn't be the latest offensive gimmick. The spread has never beaten the Buckeyes. Great teams have beaten the Buckeyes. People like to point out that of Ohio State's last four losses, three (or four depending on how you count 2005 PSU) came against athletic QB's that ran the spread. Really though, they lost to 2 national champions, a team that finished No. 3 in the polls, and a 9-3 Illini squad that may yet play in the Rose Bowl. Basically you have to bring a team that's BCS bowl worthy to beat the Buckeyes. Now there are other teams who do lose to any athletic quarterback/ spread offensive scheme even if those teams have far inferior talent *cough*Michigan*cough*, but tOSU isn't one of them.

The Buckeyes held Illinois to fewer points than current No. 1 Missouri was able to. They manhandled multiple teams that use spread attacks in the Big Ten. Some will argue those teams don't have the same level of athletes as tOSU. So was it the scheme or the player tOSU couldn't stop? It's one or the other. Since people want to cite previous years as evidence that the Bucks can't stop the spread (even though the only thing that should matter is THIS year's team), you can produce evidence of the Bucks stopping the spread in the past. In 2002 they faced Texas Tech who, under the Dread Pirate Mike Leach, run the spreadiest of spreads, and held them to a touchdown for the first 54 minutes of the game. In 2003 they played Bowling Green the year after Urban Meyer departed when they still had the same scheme and same key players (Josh Harris, P.J. Pope) and kept them at 7 until the final 3 and a half minutes. There is no good reason to believe Ohio State under Tressel cannot beat spread teams.

Now as far as how you do stop the spread, I had to do some research because my football IQ is probably well below a lot of other board members. From what I have read on the topic it seems that personnel and individual match-ups count for a lot. Utilizing strong defensive athletes that can play a variety of rolls will help disguise your plan of attack and force bad decisions. That's something I think tOSU can do with multiple players to notch up both sacks and interceptions this season. You also have to take a team out of their comfort zone and force bad decisions, in part by hitting them hard and early. I think the Bucks certainly can manage that, because I'm pretty sure Vernon Gholston is officially listed on the two-deep as "First String Bringer of Doom". The Buckeyes may have just been shorthanded against Illinois, not an issue after they get 51 days to get healthy. Or they may have been poorly prepared/positioned, but I doubt they'll ever make those mistakes again.

Against West Virginia in particular, we can look to when the Mountaineers have struggled (at least relatively) on offense. It's happened twice this season, against South Florida and Cincinnati. The Bulls and the Bearcats were the only teams WVU has played that have Top 20 rush defenses. Not a good sign for the 'Eeers since OSU has the third best rush defense. Also those teams won the turnover battle. Ohio State hasn't been great at racking up TO's but they have shown the potential (how many dropped INT's against Purdue?). Boeckman's Intercept-a-palooza didn't help things against Illinois, and it was just enough to give tOSU a negative TO margin for the season. This is the one place where I think the Buckeyes could stand to improve. They have to capitalize on White and Slaton's mistakes, force fumbles, and come down with those intercept-able passes.

 

[osugrad21]

Actually I agree with NightmaresDad regarding a possibility of the 5-2 look.

Absolutely. That is the beauty of the 33.

 

[lvbuckeye]

The only thing I've ever "bitched" about regarding the IL game was the end of the game. On this or any other thread.
The rest of the game was a few big plays given up, and 4 bad throws by the QB. Could have been overcome - if we get the ball back.
All I am saying and have said is that for that last series, why not come out in a 4-3 look and personnel and then switch it to a 5-2? Different gap responsibilities and allows for more chance for penetration by the DL. Stop the run and make them either concede, run three plays and punt - or risk a pass or two which would stop the clock if unsuccessful. I don't see the point in running a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 nickel, even with a safety up, if you KNOW they are going to run the ball.

I wouldn't trade Heacock for anybody. I hope he and tOSU defense get the chance to show what they can do against WV. If so, I will be very interested to see how we go about it.

i answered this question two posts above yours, but i'll paste it down here so maybe you'll see it this time:

it wasn't the scheme that got us beat against Illinois. it was the fact that we only had 3 healthy D-linemen. i've stated this numerous times, but no one seems to take injuries into account.

 

[808 Buck]

College Football Nation - ESPN

Some interesting thoughts from DC's from around the country on defending the spread.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

You defend it by having two space fillers at tackle, and two lock down corners. After that you spread the defensive field with good, disciplined athletes. Honestly, it's all about the hesitation. If a defensive player is ill-prepared, it will be effective against him. If he knows where to go, and plays a fundamentally sound brand of football.....all is well. Depth is also a big thing with the spread, given that a lot of teams like to speed up the tempo. Just my .02 cents......it's how I would approach it if I was trying to crack the philosophy. Man I can't wait for football season.

 

[pnuts34]

You defend it by having two space fillers at tackle, and two lock down corners. After that you spread the defensive field with good, disciplined athletes. Honestly, it's all about the hesitation. If a defensive player is ill-prepared, it will be effective against him. If he knows where to go, and plays a fundamentally sound brand of football.....all is well. Depth is also a big thing with the spread, given that a lot of teams like to speed up the tempo. Just my .02 cents......it's how I would approach it if I was trying to crack the philosophy. Man I can't wait for football season.

I agree with that, but what you're forgetting is that u need several S/LB hybrid types to be able to cover WRs and still stop the run. Because of the spread and the offense using so many WRs you need a guy who can run with them but still lay the smack down in the running game. That's what makes HS seniors who are 5'10-6'1 under 220lbs and run fast times so attractive to schools now. No longer are teams just looking for big traditional LBs for their defense. But the problem is when they try and get to the NFL the pro scouts don't know whether to put these kids at S or LB.

 

[daddyphatsacs]

I agree with that, but what you're forgetting is that u need several S/LB hybrid types to be able to cover WRs and still stop the run. Because of the spread and the offense using so many WRs you need a guy who can run with them but still lay the smack down in the running game. That's what makes HS seniors who are 5'10-6'1 under 220lbs and run fast times so attractive to schools now. No longer are teams just looking for big traditional LBs for their defense. But the problem is when they try and get to the NFL the pro scouts don't know whether to put these kids at S or LB.

I agree with your points. Eventually I think that building a defense in this fashion will leave a team exposed to a big/athletic/physical type of offense. These kinds of things go in cycles.....IMHO.

 

[pnuts34]

That's ironic that u said the way to stop those type of defenses is pretty much "smash mouth" offense. SI.com wrote an article on that:
Bobby Petrino, Arkansas look to confuse SEC with hybrid offense - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

These offenses are cyclical, but in order to try and keep up with them, u need to have those smaller faster LBs that almost look like Safeties. But u definitely will run into problems when u run into a power running team that will beat up those smaller faster Defensive players. Look at those DEs that dominated us for UF, they had Troy Smith running around the field and making mistakes but you havent heard anything from them in the league. They face larger more powerful and just as athletic OL and they're neutralized. Once a team like say a Texas A&M or an Auburn team go back to the power running offense and it knocks off some of the bigger teams in their conference, u might see a change in Offensive philosophies. But CFB can win games with gimicks until someone finds that chink in them. I like how Tressell still incorporates both the power running game and the spread depending on the opponent.

 

[Jaxbuck]

I agree with your points. Eventually I think that building a defense in this fashion will leave a team exposed to a big/athletic/physical type of offense. These kinds of things go in cycles.....IMHO.

That's ironic that u said the way to stop those type of defenses is pretty much "smash mouth" offense. SI.com wrote an article on that:
Bobby Petrino, Arkansas look to confuse SEC with hybrid offense - Stewart Mandel - SI.com

These offenses are cyclical, but in order to try and keep up with them, u need to have those smaller faster LBs that almost look like Safeties. But u definitely will run into problems when u run into a power running team that will beat up those smaller faster Defensive players. Look at those DEs that dominated us for UF, they had Troy Smith running around the field and making mistakes but you havent heard anything from them in the league. They face larger more powerful and just as athletic OL and they're neutralized. Once a team like say a Texas A&M or an Auburn team go back to the power running offense and it knocks off some of the bigger teams in their conference, u might see a change in Offensive philosophies. But CFB can win games with gimicks until someone finds that chink in them. I like how Tressell still incorporates both the power running game and the spread depending on the opponent.

Agree 100%. When everyone starts doing something its time to be the one who does it differently.

Thats why I am so skeptical of RR's regime up in AA and keep saying Wisky is going to become a matchup nightmare for teams in the B10 who go too far with the Spinners/Stars and forget about the Mike's so to speak.