How Do You Defend the Spread Offense?

[crazybuckfan40]

I agree... Getting off blocks, reading and reacting is key to defending something like Illinois. However, you can't read/react and do shit when you have lineman on you. You need people to eat up some blocks.

I don't care how many recievers they put out there. This was a QB who was passing for like 54 percent, he has been turnover prone, and more importantly he's used mainly for his RUNNING ability. The nickle/3-3-5 or whatever you wanna call it was not the smart thing to do IMO. I mean you have a running team going for 260 a game (which they got by the way) you don't put your nickle package in the game. If we run a 4-3 defense with a cover 3 zone I think that would've been just fine. This way you have a Saftey playing the pass on shorter stuff (which could be used to come down into the box) and also another to cover deep. With the recievers they have they shouldn't have been able to go deep. We were forced to blitz/stunt because we couldn't put pressure on them. To me if we rush 4 DLINEMAN we could've gotten the job much better!! To me it seemed like we were more worried about #9 Benn, and the outside game much much more than the hard nosed inside game.

You said we were in many differnet packages TRUE, but one thing I didn't see was a true 4-3 out there. WHY not is what I'm asking? I mean if they're still ripping off runs no matter what your'e doing why the hell don't we go back to base? Why do we even claim that 4-3 is our base? we never run it anyways?

My guess is why you weren't seeing the 4-3 was then they felt that Illinois would start with WR screens, screens, option, and things that spread offenses excell at against base defenses...

See the reason Michigan gets ran on by spread offenses...If Juice were to break lose they wanted guys that could run with him...

As for the lineman getting on guys...We had 4 defesive lineman with Grant playing as DE, so it was no different than what they would normally see other than there being another lb on the field usually, but we brought the safeties and corners up to 5 yards off the ball...

The scheme was not the problem IMO...Their O-line played great, we started playing on our heels, remember another thing is that our D is still young, and when push come to shove, they didnt step up and make the plays they needed to...They were there, but they overan plays, let illinois fall ahead for yards, and all day really struggled to play like they are capable of...

Keep in mind that there is always hindsight, but there are reasons behind everyone of the coaching decisions that are made, and there are very good easons why the defense runs what they do, and it is hard to question them with the results that we have had...

I really think that they took our playmakers out of the game in Gholston, Jenkins, Lil Animal(to an extent) when after the younger guys Chekwa, Coleman, right at the inside guys...

Also losing Washington really hurt us to, as he is very good in run support...

 

[crazybuckfan40]

The Illinois skill position players - QB, RB, WR's - would set, would look to the sideline coaches before most plays, reset, then run the play. My assumption is that they were getting a final order, based upon the OSU alignment, of the play direction.

I was hoping that after halftime the OSU defense would start making adjustments as the Illinois players were looking to their sideline to keep the Illinois coaches from calling audibles from the sidelines with upper-deck booth help.

Can someone please tell me why I am stupid and Heacock knew exactly what he was trying to do? (I mean on this topic specifically, I already know Heacock makes me look like the Bengals D-coordinator on a bad day)

Not going to tell you that you are stupid by any means, but you did see a bunch of disguised coverage, stunting on the dline, blitzes from different places to try and offset this...They would roll up, then back while ill would try and get the plays in...At one point I kept thinking that eventually that would cause Juice to make a mistake, but the kid played a great game and you have to give it to him...

 

[Mike80]

Something I think needs to be pointed out again (although CBF40 started going in that direction), this was by far the worst tackling in a game I think I've seen this year.

Arm-tackling isn't going to bring down legit RBs like Mendenhall or Williams or whatever the other guys name was....even when they attempted to wrap up the guy they were able to get away every now and again, which happens every game, but there were so many reaching attempts at tackles today - I think there were more in this game than I can remember all year long - it was just one part of the overall performance that led to this outcome.

Not to single anyone out though. Win as a team, lose as a team, LEARN as a team.

 

[kartaron]

Guys the coaches didnt just put the nickel defense on the field because they were guessing how to stop the spread...They have a plan with it...

Also if we add more beef up the middle that allows the offense to spread the ball to the receivers more, but the defense in different positions where you have receivers on lbs, then in position where you have DT's trying to run down a fast QB...Why do that?

With our safeties coleman and Russell we have 2 guys back there that can move up to closer to the line and act as a OLB...WE moved Grant up to DE then moved one of them up...

The thing is everytime we tried to stunt, we tried to blitz, they beat us...

We loaded the box on their first run, they opened up a little crease and we had no one in the middle of the field and we went for 80 yards...

We brought guys up to the line and played a cover 3 or cover 1 not sure which, but we had one safety in the middle of the field and they sent 2 guys on seams, and they took advantage for a td...

On the goal line on the td to Gamble our DBs ran into each other...We tried to blitz 6, they picked up...

We didnt just sit in a 3-3-5 all day, honestly most of the time it looked more like a 4-2 straight nickel, but there was so many different packages that we ran at them, they just seemed to exploit the weakness on everyplay...

It had nothing to do with the scheme...It had to lots with reading, reacting, getting off blocks, and making plays...

After they started hitting us with some big plays we were on our heels and werent just flying to the ball...

You stop the spread the same way you stop most other offenses by getting off blocks, reading, reacting, staying in your lanes, flying to the football, tackling and covering...Of course the offense dictates that you put more dbs on the field or they beat you with speed, but the same principles apply...

Good post. We also stopped them for a while with some of this for a 3 or 4 '3 and outs' in a row.

They were running a lot of isolation and forward blocking plays that were working well for them. Their receivers and TEs especially were blocking well (sometimes holding) downfield. They alternated well, blocking the LBs, running to our Nickel DBs and passing when they could.

 

[BengalsAndBucks]

The thing we have been lacking all year is solid DT play, and that really hurt us in this game. Instead of being able to rely on our DTs to stuff the middle and force everything outside, we had to keep linebackers in the middle of the field for that extra half-second while they figured out whether Juice handed the ball off or kept it himself. Thats the difference between a play being strung out to the sideline for no gain and a 5 yard gain. We saw it agianst Penn State and Wisconsin too. We just don't have any real force to be reckoned with in the middle, like we did last year in Pitcock. Have to wonder if maybe Cam could be that for us this year if Wilson and then Rose hadn't gotten hurt.

On a separate note, I thought our DE's, particularly Gholston, played very well. On multiple occasions where they tried to run the option, Gholston was right in Williams face forcing him to pitch early. The one thing I wish is that, instead of breaking down and then chasing the RB after Juice had made the pitch, is if he had just gone full steam ahead at Juice a couple of times. He put Juice on his back a couple of times, but it just seemed like had he attacked Juice instead of just forcing the pitch, that he could have just absolutely drilled him a couple of times.

 

[EastSide]

The spread is meant to visually confuse the defense. The defense can not let their eyes control its actions. They have to have a plan first react 2nd strategy opposed to the quick react first plan 2nd.

Here is what the defense has to do against the spread offense. Rush 3 man line and put MIKE on the QB. Then have the WLB on the TB and SLB on the FB. Then all of the DBs have to go in zone. They have to stay in there zone which is not what OSU did. Our DBs bit on the run. The DBS are not to watch for the run but the pass. Let the LBs stop the RUN. Then if the DBs want to close the deal after the QB or RB has scrambled passed the line then that is OK but not before.

Every TD that we gave up was when our DBs reacted to a run or left their zone and doubled up. This is exactly what the offensive play was designed to do. We did not make any adjustments at the half either.

 

[daveeb]

We could just ask the South Florida Bulls. I mean, to be honest, they have stopped the premiere spread option offense the last 2 years, and they probably have better personnel overall than the Illini do.

I firmly believe that the 3-4 defense will always be the most versatile defense in football, only barely touched by the Tampa 2. The Patriots use it, and they are a dynasty. The Steelers have used it for the past 15 years, and they have dominated any division they have been in (Aside from when the Ravens were great. By the way, what do the Ravens use now? 3-4).

Let me put it this way: We didn't get to Juice Williams at all behind the line of scrimmage. The 3-4 is based around unpredictable blitz packages from the linebacker position.

Having the right personnel is the problem. Outside linebackers in the 3-4 generally need to be around 240-260 lbs, and fast. Like, we are talking SEC fast and midwest huge at the same time. Defensive ends need to be between 280-300 pounds. Defensive tackles often times need to be between 300 and 330 pounds.

The defensive line is the key. 3 defensive lineman need to completely disrupt the offensive line. They just need to be huge bodies that occupy the whole offensive line with constant pressure. A very grueling process without a lot of glory.

For instance, Casey Hampton has never had more than 42 tackles and 2 sacks in a season. He is considered by many Steelers fans, including myself, to be the best overall player on that defense.

Okay, here is how I would approach dealing with the spread option in a 3-4-4 set:

...............S..............S
CB......................................CB
......LOLB...LILB....RILB...ROLB
................LDE..DT..RDE

WR.WR.WR..LT.G.C.G.RT........WR
.......................QB..RB

RILB is the QB spy. ROLB is blitzing. If the RB were on the QBs left side, and the wide receivers were stacked on the other side, the LILB would be the QB spy and LOLB would be blitzing. Why, you ask?

Every single time that the QB was in this position on 1st down, he either did three things:
1) Option right
2) Throw towards stacked
3) Run up the middle
4) Screen

If they option right, RILB can go for the tackle/block on the QB, and the ROLB can go for the tackle/block on the RB as he is already on the move.
If he throws towards the stacked side, LOLB and LILB can get into coverage against the wide receivers with the safeties and cornerbacks covering as well.
If he runs up the middle, the RILB is there to meet him.
When the defensive line gets through the offensive line too easily, it becomes evidence of a screen. Safety covers right side wide receiver. ROLB gets in QBs face, RILB covers the RB, RCB comes in to bust the play.

The ROLB blitz causes concern for the offensive line. Due to the unpredictability of the blitz that would occur via the linebacker position, the offensive line will have to be ready for a blitz from every linebacker position.

That is the beauty of the 3-4. It causes a lot of confusion. For instance...

LOLB is instead blitzing. ROLB is covering the RB.

If Juice rolls right for an option pitch, LILB covers a crossing wide receiver across the middle, just in case there is a throw. RILB moves to prevent a run by Juice. ROLB has the RB ready to be tackled.
If Juice runs up the middle, he has two inside linebackers to meet him.
If Juice stands in the pocket, he has a LOLB coming after him and he has to try and move right. RB is going out for a throw, but has an ROLB covering him. RILB can come to meet Juice.
If they are setting up a screen, the ROLB still is covering the RB. Wide receivers are covered. Here comes that LOLB. Situation 1 with 3 broken through defensive lineman applies.

Just a few thoughts. Obviously, you just need to mix up what linebackers are going to be doing what. Having a freelance safety, like Troy Polamalu, can often times help. That often times makes the formation a 3-5-3 (One of the complaints in Steel Town), but with athletic linebackers, you can stop passes across the middle.

Frame-by-Frame: Spread Offense vs Steeler Defense | postgameheroes.com Or, you know, I could be completely wrong. Then again, Ken Whisenhunt did sort of have all of his time in Pittsburgh to prepare to beat Pittsburgh.

By the way, I am not a football coach. But I did stay in a Holiday Day Inn Express last night.

 

[bukIpower]

The look of our defense was a 4-3, but with a linebacker as a down lineman. You can't have a 220 pound defensive end!! I like Larry Grant, but he is not Bobby Carpenter. Personally I think we're just running out of bofirs to play football with on the D-line.

Could you imagine had we not somehow gotten Cam Haywerd? We would be in a world of hurt right now thats for sure.

The next 2 years we really need to restock the d-lineman. More Ends, and definatly without a doubt MORE TACKLES.

Also using a pure 4-3 would not have gotten us burnt yesterday. I mean think about it. You have Jenkins/Washington who could still possibly be a top pairing in the nation, fast LB's, and quick safties. Their running game was breaking lose anyways against our defensive alignment so why not try a more run oriented scheme?

My strategy for yesterdays game would've been as such. Play a 4-3 with tons of involvement from the safties. Have the safties move around more, make the QB think they're blitzing then back off or back off them blitz. I would've played a cover 3 which would've allowed another saftey to come up into the box playing sort of a 4-4 formation. Would've done minimal blitzing because eventually we would've gotten to Juice, but yesterday people were WIDE OPEN and it's hard not to miss throws like that. We aligned on defense and never really disguised things. Like on that TD pass the ABC crew kept annilizing. The guy that caught the ball had no one within 10 yards of him before the QB snapped the ball. Where we short a man or something? NO we weren't, what we needed to do was to drop more and cover the WR's better putting pressure with a good rush dlinue. IF Juice doesn't see people running free my money says he panics and either throws it INC or for an INT.

 

[Jaxbuck]

CB40 pretty much summed it all up for me from the x's and o's standpoint.

Its never 100% scheme, execution plays a huge role. This was just one of those days that they executed their offense to perfection. That type of offense with the skill position talent they have is going to beat anyone when its clicking 100%.

Better tackling and better Dline play on our part would have gone a long way to help make their execution less perfect.

My first reaction after the game was to really question Heacock as DC. My reasoning was that this is the second time in 11 games now we've seen a performance like that against an offense like that. I calmed down and realized hoever that he's had essentially the same players for those two games so anything that was done to the defense last year was capable of being repeated this year.

Denlinger, Larimore and maybe Worthington will be big run stuffing DT's at the peak of their careers, they just aren't there yet. I remember Tim Anderson and Pitcock both playing as FR and Soph's and neither was a world beater then either. They showed flashed but they didn't dominate.

In the future anytime anyone wants to start comparing best defenses, I suggest they watch any game from 2002. That defense was always in position, always had shoulders square, outside arm free, they made tackles and flew to the ball. They did well against spread teams with less speed than we have now because they kept everything in front of them and didn't miss tackles. They also had a DL that could take over the LOS without help from the back 7.

 

[exhawg]

a defensive line like we had in '02 is a good start

That's exactly what I was thinking. You need to have a more dominate d-line that we have right now. It's hard to stop a qb like Juice Williams when he is on his game like yesterday.

 

[SNIPER26]

My two cents...

Like Hail said, just watch Michigan play, and do everything the opposite way, and you should be okay.

In all seriousness, I think a 4-2-5, 3-3-5 and 3-4 would be the best ways to go. You get a bunch of speed out there which is obviously necessary to slow down 4-5 wideout sets. If I were the DC, I think I'd bring outside pressure and have a QB spy either at LB or a safety who's comfortable playing in the box. Of course, before the game started, I'd take Malcolm Jenkins, Jack Ikegwuonu, Kenny Phillips, Dr. Myron Rolle and Donovan Warren for my backfield

 

[Bleed S & G]

man we have the athletes to have 2 spys everyplay.. what gives?

 

[Honor&Glory]

I am not a defensive guru, but I have watched my high school team defend the Spread OPTION offense the same way for seven years...and you defend the Spread Option the same way you defend the triple option. You play assignment football...but its the MLB's and OLB's that play the assignments on the RB and QB...and you hit them both on every single play...the D-linemen play two gap responsibilities...I know high school is not Major D1 college football...but you must assign somebody to the qb and rb at all times. take away the run of the spread option offense and it becomes a pedestrian spread offense like the one Northwestern runs and OSU has dominated in the past...allow the RB and QB to run wild and, well, we've seen the end result twice in the last 11 months. :(

 

[Buckeyecty4]

Great topic..

Five biggest problems I've gathered from reading this thread and applying them to the game.

1)No DT play yesterday.. hard to control the LOS or play your gap when your getting driven off the ball every play

2)DBs not playing assignment football.. as stated above, they got play the pass, and then clean up the run.. not be looking to play the run so much that they jeopordize their pass defense

3)Larry Grant playing standup DE.. thats just asking to get blown off the ball

4)Too much LB blitzing and not enough assignment football from their side of things.. we needed a more controlled spy system on the QB and RB

5)Execution - poor tackling around the LOS, not making Juice pay with big hits, and not playing your assignments

Obviously a key point when prepping for this type of offense is the ability to believe in your gameplan, your assignments, and as stated above, do not let your eyes and all the shifting being done effect your responsibility and gameplan..

In both this game and the UF game, u just felt that the defense was on their heels, and let all the shifts and activity of the offense muddle their brains..

Either that or Heacock doesnt have the right plan and prep for this offense

 

[Colvinnl]

We've defended the spread-option well in the past. I think the big difference was 1) we simply didn't hit the QB or RB...How many times was Juice hit? Did he have any reason to fear being clobbered? In the past we would at least punish the backs who ran this offense against us...and that leads to 2) Illinois ran a nearly flawless offense...partially because of #1-we didn't force them to make any mistakes...didn't disrupt their offense at all. The problem with the spread option is that it is feast of famine...nearly impossible defend when it is run perfectly but nearly impossible to run perfectly (at least every game).