Homeschooling debate

[buckeyegrad]

From the whole "your child won't be able to socialize with other kids" that's on the parents IMO. The kids can still be part of the neighborhood. After being in school with the idiots I had to go to school with I didn't WANT to be around them for the most part.

Very well said. Making sure a child is well socialized (whatever that means as we are talking about a social construction) is the parents' responsibility. Now some parents may choose to use schools to help with this process, which is fine; however, there are other venues (e.g. church, sports, civic volunteering) where it can also be developed.

 

[muffler dragon]

Based off atleast your wife's experiances, what does she have to say overall about being homeschooled compared to going to a public high school?

My wife only had one public school experience and this was in a VERY small community in Nebraska. It was a lame experience.

It is worth noting that homeschooling worked out extremely well for my wife, because of her interest in ballet. She was a dancer from 8-17. The amount of hours that she put into that would have made public education very difficult. She has no qualms whatsoever about her homeschooling experience, and she was able to finish her education at 15 1/2.

I can understand how it would probably be a very good education from that standpoint, as you would have more direct focus on your learning, I just would think that overall going to a public school and interacting with kids your own age everyday would teach you things that you would never learn from homeschooling. Not to diss on anyone's choice for their children, because it is their decision, I just think that the social and life skills that you learn from being around people everyday are things that can not necessarilly be substituted.

The social and life skills can be addressed and augmented in other ways outside of public school.

I should note that I am a product of the public school system. Thus, we have both sides of the coin to discuss between ourselves. As I think more and more about it, there really is a very small amount of reason to put my child into public school UNTIL she wants the challenge or some other reason.

 

[buckeyegrad]

Not sure you were lucky enough to get the 'creative writing' curriculum, where they refused to teach grammar, or correct any mistakes in submitted assignments. They didn't want to impede creativity, but instead impeded literacy. I was very fortunate to move out of that town before HS.

This is such an interesting comment to me. In 2001, I did a summer research internship at Lancaster University in the UK where I worked on an audit of faculty grading policies in the Arts and Humanities. As part of the audit, I interviewed the Creating Writing Faculty and they were very upset over the lack of knowledge students had regarding basic grammar. Their point was that one could not write creatively unless one understood the rules of grammar they were breaking. A few months later, I was in an education policy course at OSU and was having a discussion with a student going for her Masters in teaching creative writing. When I told her the perspective of the Lancaster Faculty she acted as if she had never heard or thought of this perspective and that it was something for her to really consider.....I was only left to wonder exactly what was she being taught by her professors.

 

[muffler dragon]

Not trying to judge you or your wife or anything, but why would you want to homeschool a child that young? Are the schools in your area bad? Seems like something that could hinder the development of her social skills.

My daughter is a social butterfly and has no problem with manners and speaking at her present age. I'm not worred about that area.

As for the local schools, I have been told that they are fine schools. It's just a personal choice without any animus.

Anyway, I homeschooled for my junior and senior years in highschool (I graduated in January). My curriculum came from one of the local charter schools. I'm not sure if charter schools in every state support homeschooled kids though.

I'm evaluating everything in Oregon at present. Since this is a rather progressive state, I have found many positive things so far.

 

[BuckeyeRyn]

Very well said. Making sure a child is well socialized (whatever that means as we are talking about a social construction) is the parents' responsibility. Now some parents may choose to use schools to help with this process, which is fine; however, there are other venues (e.g. church, sports, civic volunteering) where it can also be developed.

I know the socialization of my children is my responsiblity... I'm talking about the lessons learned at school that are social/problem learning experiences... i.e. the child doesn't like his/her teacher... learn to deal with it, there will be people in your life, throughout your entire life you won't like but still have to deal with. 2. I forgot my lunch money, what will I need to do to eat lunch today. 3. I have been selected as Captain of the Red Rover team, I need to pick my players... or, I was picked last for the Red Rover team. 4. I was sent to the principal's office for something I didn't do, what do I do now? I know someone else was sent to the principal's office for something they didn't do but I did..

I could obviously go on and on with different scenarios... these are just a few to prove there are things that happen at school that simply can't be duplicated at home...

 

[muffler dragon]

I could be totally wrong, but I have to wonder about how the lack of social interaction that you get at public or private schools impacts a kids development. In our flag football league, we had, almost every year a group of homeschooled kids that sign up as a team together. Year in, year out they exhibited the worst sportsmanship of any of the teams we played - constantly complaining about calls, belittling their own teammates, complaining about cheating even though they stuffed their flags under their shirts. It could be just that those group of kids were assholes, but I can't help but draw the conclusion that they act that way because they were homeschooled.

Personally, I would place the blame on the parents' shoulders. Public presentations/expressions of the sort are not acceptable in my house.

 

[muffler dragon]

I am anti-homeschooling for a variety of reasons... ranging from lack of social exposure to lack of exposure to germs and everything in between.

Yes, you read correctly, I wouldn't want my child to stay at home all day long because they need to get out in the world and experience life, and build an immune system, learn to problem solve, learn consequences, learn proper interaction.

I would much rather raise a "street smart" child than a "book smart" child. If my kids grow up and don't know the answer to a question they would have the life skills in place to problem solve, to know they can access the internet, head to the library, things like that... however, if they don't know how to problem solve then they are screwed, unless they have many psych books at their fingertips. Even then, they still might be in trouble, they would have the ability to "read" the info in the book but that doesn't mean they would know how to apply it to themselves...

And this is where my wife and I are placing more responsibility on our shoulders. I take the onus on me to ensure that my daughter is not deficient in social skills and the like.

Sickness/Germs/Immunizations: this is a completely different topic in and of itself, so if it goes down the path of debate/discussion, then I request another thread. Anyway... I have researched vaccinations and I'm familiar with 90% of the carrier agents used to transport the dead bacteria/viruses into the blood stream. I, as a chemist, cannot do it. Thus, my daughter and my newborn son have not and will not be immunized while living at my home. My daughter is 100 times healthier than her cousins and the children in the neighborhood. This health does not come from lack of exposure, but instead, proper precautions in weather and hygiene. Thus, this point is a non-issue in my household.

As for the social interaction, there are more than enough ways in order to make sure my daughter gets what she needs. No worries.

 

[buckeyegrad]

I could obviously go on and on with different scenarios... these are just a few to prove there are things that happen at school that simply can't be duplicated at home...

I agree with you that they cannot be duplicated at home, but I do believe such processes can be duplicated in other public venues like churches, community-based sports teams, civic volunteer centers, etc.

 

[muffler dragon]

Parents should... be parents and not educators. They are not trained to educate and have to devote a huge amount of their time to just parenting.
Many have trouble just parenting.
Let parents teach moral values and educator's teach math and science.

I agree and disagree.

I agree for the disciplines that are out of mine and my wife's range which would be college level courses. I disagree when it comes to the general education curriculum. Getting a GED, IMO, is a cake-walk. Furthermore, I have the knowledge to help my daughter in more advanced courses, and I shall also know how she learns better than any educator.

 

[muffler dragon]

I know the socialization of my children is my responsiblity... I'm talking about the lessons learned at school that are social/problem learning experiences... i.e. the child doesn't like his/her teacher... learn to deal with it, there will be people in your life, throughout your entire life you won't like but still have to deal with. 2. I forgot my lunch money, what will I need to do to eat lunch today. 3. I have been selected as Captain of the Red Rover team, I need to pick my players... or, I was picked last for the Red Rover team. 4. I was sent to the principal's office for something I didn't do, what do I do now? I know someone else was sent to the principal's office for something they didn't do but I did..

I could obviously go on and on with different scenarios... these are just a few to prove there are things that happen at school that simply can't be duplicated at home...

The emboldened IS true. However, homeschooling does not equate to sticking a child in a room for all eternity.

 

[BuckeyeRyn]

I agree with you that they cannot be duplicated at home, but I do believe such processes can be duplicated in other public venues like churches, community-based sports teams, civic volunteer centers, etc.

Very true... all valid places to get such exposure.. I just prefer the exposure to be daily... at the Buttocks' casa we don't go to church and sports daily, only about 3-4 times a week.

 

[scooter1369]

I am anti-homeschooling for a variety of reasons... ranging from lack of social exposure to lack of exposure to germs and everything in between.

Yes, you read correctly, I wouldn't want my child to stay at home all day long because they need to get out in the world and experience life, and build an immune system, learn to problem solve, learn consequences, learn proper interaction.

I would much rather raise a "street smart" child than a "book smart" child. If my kids grow up and don't know the answer to a question they would have the life skills in place to problem solve, to know they can access the internet, head to the library, things like that... however, if they don't know how to problem solve then they are screwed, unless they have many psych books at their fingertips. Even then, they still might be in trouble, they would have the ability to "read" the info in the book but that doesn't mean they would know how to apply it to themselves...

I find this stance surprising from you, Ryn. Why is there some perception that because a child is homeschooled, they never interact with other children? Most homeschoolers do so in groups. Some as many as 15 to 20 kids working in study groups with adult supervision using a designed curriculum that typically exceeds the local public school standards.

Many studies have proven that homschooled kids cover twice the material that public school children do, due to the lack of classroom distractions, calamity days, more structured environment and freedom of using time wisely and effeciently.

There is a reason the public school systems in the U.S. are the laughing stock of the developed countries. They cater to the weakest link in the name of preserving self esteem and sheltering our precious little snowflakes from disappointment and heartbreak.

Its the same mentality that says in sports, score shouldn't be kept, standings aren't kept, everyone gets a trophy and no champion decided. God forbid our wonderfully perfect children aren't the center of the universe with every adult they come in contact with catering to their every whim.

Guess what? Not everyone is going to be a winner everytime. Some kids work harder to get better, that is why they win. Not every kid can be valedictorian. Some kids are simply smarter than our kids and some kids have a financial advantage. Success come to those who earn it.

If I had the time and patience, and didn't already live in an area with a respected school system and teachers I know personally, I'd homeschool my children.

My daughters interact with other kids all week without school being a factor between softball, teeball, martial arts, girl scouts and neighborhood friends. They don't need the influence of little Johnny Pyro who's parents don't pay attention to and is always acting up in class and is never disciplined because mom and dad would pitch a fit to the school board. The positive influences my girls get in their activities outside of school far exceed the average influence in school.

My question is, Why the hell wouldn't you homeschool if you could?

 

[muffler dragon]

I'm just going to take a moment and show some occurrences that have happened in my daughter's life that may or may not reflect well on your points below:

I know the socialization of my children is my responsiblity... I'm talking about the lessons learned at school that are social/problem learning experiences... i.e. the child doesn't like his/her teacher... learn to deal with it, there will be people in your life, throughout your entire life you won't like but still have to deal with.

Our next door neighbors have a son who is just a little older than my daughter. Carson is a royal pain in the ass. He attempts to physically and verbally assert himself over my daughter. How has she handled it? 1) She has talked with us about him. 2) She has talked with us about her feelings. 3) She has handled it in her own manner by either retaliating in kind or ignoring. Carson isn't the only boy/child that has done this and he won't be the last. This didn't take place in school, but instead, right in front of my house.

2. I forgot my lunch money, what will I need to do to eat lunch today.

When forgetting anything, we have proceeded in two fashions: 1) personal accountability (if necessary) and awareness 2) attempted to instill a greater sense than self. Talk with us, share ideas, interact IF a problem needs to be resolved. There's not much more to do in this regard.

3. I have been selected as Captain of the Red Rover team, I need to pick my players... or, I was picked last for the Red Rover team.

Exclusion happens everywhere, and this has also occurred in our community. Since my daughter is the youngest of the group, this happens often. She has learned to grow and deal.

4. I was sent to the principal's office for something I didn't do, what do I do now? I know someone else was sent to the principal's office for something they didn't do but I did..

Justice. This is also a function that is dealt with frequently probably more so between parent and child. There are many times that my daughter feels she's getting the short end of the deal with us. It takes communication and understanding to see both perspectives.

I could obviously go on and on with different scenarios... these are just a few to prove there are things that happen at school that simply can't be duplicated at home...

Truth be told, Ryn, your points didn't PROVE anything. These are synonymous concepts that are found elsewhere. Just because it's not in a school building with certain professionals or kids by particular names does not mean that a homeschooled child will be devoid of certain circumstances in life.

 

[BuckeyeRyn]

I find this stance surprising from you, Ryn. Why is there some perception that because a child is homeschooled, they never interact with other children? Most homeschoolers do so in groups. Some as many as 15 to 20 kids working in study groups with adult supervision using a designed curriculum that typically exceeds the local public school standards.

Many studies have proven that homschooled kids cover twice the material that public school children do, due to the lack of classroom distractions, calamity days, more structured environment and freedom of using time wisely and effeciently.

There is a reason the public school systems in the U.S. are the laughing stock of the developed countries. They cater to the weakest link in the name of preserving self esteem and sheltering our precious little snowflakes from disappointment and heartbreak.

Its the same mentality that says in sports, score shouldn't be kept, standings aren't kept, everyone gets a trophy and no champion decided. God forbid our wonderfully perfect children aren't the center of the universe with every adult they come in contact with catering to their every whim.

Guess what? Not everyone is going to be a winner everytime. Some kids work harder to get better, that is why they win. Not every kid can be valedictorian. Some kids are simply smarter than our kids and some kids have a financial advantage. Success come to those who earn it.

If I had the time and patience, and didn't already live in an area with a respected school system and teachers I know personally, I'd homeschool my children.

My daughters interact with other kids all week without school being a factor between softball, teeball, martial arts, girl scouts and neighborhood friends. They don't need the influence of little Johnny Pyro who's parents don't pay attention to and is always acting up in class and is never disciplined because mom and dad would pitch a fit to the school board. The positive influences my girls get in their activities outside of school far exceed the average influence in school.

My question is, Why the hell wouldn't you homeschool if you could?

I could homeschool if I wanted... I'm pretty sure BKB and I have enough education between the two of us to qualify, if there even is a parental pre-requiste level for home-schooling your children.

Along these lines, I would say I do homeschool my children on a certain level daily... I use the foundation the school provides merely as a starting point.. after dinner, after school we expound upon those beginnings each and every day.

 

[muffler dragon]

I just prefer the exposure to be daily...

Why would that matter?

IMO, a child learns by longer periods of consideration and understanding. Bombardment CAN lead to confusion. The way my daughter learns is by being able to chew on something and come to her own conclusions. Thus, her type would not find inundation conducive.