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As someone who people expect to volunteer their time in order to get their business, I totally get those companies. Can I bring in my tax return for a review and see if this would be a good fit = I want to you to look over my tax return for free and tell me if I did it right so I know I don't need your service. Fuck that noise. I've got plenty of work and don't need your business -- I have the power here. You want me, you pay me. If you expect me to volunteer my time just to get your business, what other things are you going to expect me to do for free? Nah.....money or gtfo.

The way I see it, you are paying for the estimate with the other companies, too -- they just bury that time in their invoice.
 
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Fungo Squiggly said:
As someone who people expect to volunteer their time in order to get their business, I totally get those companies. Can I bring in my tax return for a review and see if this would be a good fit = I want to you to look over my tax return for free and tell me if I did it right so I know I don't need your service. Fuck that noise. I've got plenty of work and don't need your business -- I have the power here. You want me, you pay me. If you expect me to volunteer my time just to get your business, what other things are you going to expect me to do for free? Nah.....money or gtfo.

The way I see it, you are paying for the estimate with the other companies, too -- they just bury that time in their invoice.
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It’s called sales. I don’t get paid to quote projects by the organizations that I’m trying to get work from.

I just had 2 companies quote tree removal. Neither charged me to come out and give me their price or how they were going to approach the project.

I get that in the end you pay the price of that time as part of their multiplier, but to think I’m going to pay up front and go nah I don’t to work with you because your price is outrageous or your an ass, is ridiculous. You should be minimally able to give me a range of service costs over the phone.
 
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buckeyebri said:
It’s called sales. I don’t get paid to quote projects by the organizations that I’m trying to get work from.

I just had 2 companies quote tree removal. Neither charged me to come out and give me their price or how they were going to approach the project.

I get that in the end you pay the price of that time as part of their multiplier, but to think I’m going to pay up front and go nah I don’t to work with you because your price is outrageous or your an ass, is ridiculous. You should be minimally able to give me a range of service costs over the phone.
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Sales is different in the BTB world, in my opinion. There is a level of respect expected between organizations not to waste each others time with bullshit.

Not directed at you , but I don't find that the average individual has any respect for technical expertise/skill these days. They aren't just selling you a standard widget -- they are diagnosing the issue, determining the best method for correcting it, and accurately estimating the cost to make those corrections. And only then do they begin making their sales pitch on why they are the best company to do the job. I get that it isn't how things have always been done, but I don't have an issue with that pricing model. And people who do can find somebody else to do the work.

Granted, it's April 4th, so my curmudgeon-level is pretty high right now. But everyone thinks they can watch a couple youtube videos or idiots on tiktok and suddenly become an expert at something and its horseshit and I'm tired of it. :lol:
 
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Fungo Squiggly said:
Sales is different in the BTB world, in my opinion. There is a level of respect expected between organizations not to waste each others time with bullshit.

Not directed at you , but I don't find that the average individual has any respect for technical expertise/skill these days. They aren't just selling you a standard widget -- they are diagnosing the issue, determining the best method for correcting it, and accurately estimating the cost to make those corrections. And only then do they begin making their sales pitch on why they are the best company to do the job. I get that it isn't how things have always been done, but I don't have an issue with that pricing model. And people who do can find somebody else to do the work.

Granted, it's April 4th, so my curmudgeon-level is pretty high right now. But everyone thinks they can watch a couple youtube videos or idiots on tiktok and suddenly become an expert at something and its horseshit and I'm tired of it. :lol:
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I think that both of your points are valid, depending on perspective. I think it comes down to drawing a line in the sales process. If you are providing value prior to the sale, you are consulting (for lack of better terms). That’s where I think Fungo is at in this situation. People want value for free… which is distinctly different than providing a quote for services.

That said, I won’t do business with someone who won’t provide pricing estimates up front. On top of that, with your pricing estimate, you need to spec what is included in the pricing so there’s no surprises either way when we’re all done. But I do not expect value for the quote… other than the information.

I do understand, especially this time of year, how Fungo must feel. My mom was an accountant for a long time. This time of year is hell.

As one who continues to pay for a professional to do our taxes, I feel that if you charge a premium for your accounting services, it is on you to tell me why your services are worth the premium. There’s no such thing as a Giffen good in accounting… and as an accountant, I’m sure you appreciate that it’s purely utilitarian. If you charge a premium, you have to provide value in excess of the premium you charge. That can come by way of things you know about current laws / regs that translate into saving me money and / or providing a level of service that warrants the premium.

I hardly believe that line of thinking is what you describe when you say “did I do it right?” Technically, that’s a review of someone’s filings and SHOULD be a for-fee service. Perhaps it’s a discounted service if you are not entering any of the information or signing the return, but providing nothing more than a non-binding “looks ok, but you’re on your own” nod. I can, from a liability relative to payout perspective totally understand why you would not engage in that service. That said, from a sales perspective, you COULD offer a free service to selected potential clients to review _already_ filed returns to demonstrate the incremental value you could create for someone — all without having to provide real value for a return in progress. If it’s in progress, anything you provide is of value and you should feel free to bill.
 
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Understand @Fungo Squiggly where you’re coming from. When I have dealt with Tax and Wealth management, I have always been provided with a list of services and fees. I understand I will pay for their Professional knowledge.

In this case, I know the issues and I know what needs done. Just like with the trees. I want competitive bids to do the work. I’m more than willing to provide any available information necessary to do that. Just like organizations do for me when I bid projects. At a minimum give me a range of service costs. Let’s see replace Chimney Cap, flue cap and rain cap on a 2 story chimney. $1000 - $2000. At least gives me somewhere to start.

FYI, I think I need a new tax guy8D
 
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buckeyebri said:
Understand @Fungo Squiggly where you’re coming from. When I have dealt with Tax and Wealth management, I have always been provided with a list of services and fees. I understand I will pay for their Professional knowledge.

In this case, I know the issues and I know what needs done. Just like with the trees. I want competitive bids to do the work. I’m more than willing to provide any available information necessary to do that. Just like organizations do for me when I bid projects. At a minimum give me a range of service costs. Let’s see replace Chimney Cap, flue cap and rain cap on a 2 story chimney. $1000 - $2000. At least gives me somewhere to start.

FYI, I think I need a new tax guy8D
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That's totally fair! They should at least give you an idea of if it will be $1000 or $5000. I suspect the company has probably run into too many people who say "all I need is this" and then when they get there, they find a completely different and way more fucked-up situation and now they are dealing with some asshole saying "you told me it would only be X!". I hate those motherfuckers. :slappy:

I just don't trust people to give me all of the relevant information over the phone, whether out of ignorance or not, so I'll never give anything resembling a firm price. They might get a "most of our returns are between X and Y but I can't give you a real fee until I look at things". And even then, I may not know the time involved until I get into it in-depth. Sure, it's just 3 W-2s on the surface, but you didn't mention that you over-contributed to your HSA and 401k when you switched jobs and now I have to explain the different ways to fix it. And your employer withheld for the wrong city and school district. Oh, and you got married and changed your W-4 so now you owe money and you want to know why and you need help with the new W-4. None of that is info I can glean from a 10-second look at the forms, but when I go to bill for that time, they are shocked -- "but it was just a couple tax forms! and you told me X to Y".

Needless to say, I am not taking new clients these days. In fact, I'm firing a bunch this off-season. I don't know how many new clients I've turned away this season....at least a hundred, I'd say. I've got more than enough work and I'm going to choose who I want to work with. Bitch about my already stupidly low fees? Fuck off - you have NO idea what another CPA would charge, bye. Be unappreciative or rude? Bye. Not reply "thank you" to emails where I answer your random questions in the offseason? GTFO. It's going to be a purge that would make a Communist leader proud. I am over ungrateful people. Good luck finding a new person and have fun at H&R Block, bitches!
 
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Fungo Squiggly said:
That's totally fair! They should at least give you an idea of if it will be $1000 or $5000. I suspect the company has probably run into too many people who say "all I need is this" and then when they get there, they find a completely different and way more fucked-up situation and now they are dealing with some asshole saying "you told me it would only be X!". I hate those motherfuckers. :slappy:

I just don't trust people to give me all of the relevant information over the phone, whether out of ignorance or not, so I'll never give anything resembling a firm price. They might get a "most of our returns are between X and Y but I can't give you a real fee until I look at things". And even then, I may not know the time involved until I get into it in-depth. Sure, it's just 3 W-2s on the surface, but you didn't mention that you over-contributed to your HSA and 401k when you switched jobs and now I have to explain the different ways to fix it. And your employer withheld for the wrong city and school district. Oh, and you got married and changed your W-4 so now you owe money and you want to know why and you need help with the new W-4. None of that is info I can glean from a 10-second look at the forms, but when I go to bill for that time, they are shocked -- "but it was just a couple tax forms! and you told me X to Y".

Needless to say, I am not taking new clients these days. In fact, I'm firing a bunch this off-season. I don't know how many new clients I've turned away this season....at least a hundred, I'd say. I've got more than enough work and I'm going to choose who I want to work with. Bitch about my already stupidly low fees? Fuck off - you have NO idea what another CPA would charge, bye. Be unappreciative or rude? Bye. Not reply "thank you" to emails where I answer your random questions in the offseason? GTFO. It's going to be a purge that would make a Communist leader proud. I am over ungrateful people. Good luck finding a new person and have fun at H&R Block, bitches!
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What I like here, is that you have built your company/services to the point where you can say this is who I want to work with. I know a few other folks like that. That’s got to be the ultimate!
 
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So dishwasher (10 years old) has a minor leak so it's time. any recommendations on brand/model? Wife does not want to spend a fortune on a new one and doesn't require all the bells and whistles (which is nice).
 
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AKAK said:
Doesn't whirlpool own everything now?

So... Whirlpool? :lol:
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Yeah pretty much. What’s a fortune @AuTX Buckeye? Just bought a new Whirlpool as ours died after only 4 years. You can go anywhere from $400-$1000. I don’t know if the $1000 Bosch is worth it. I wish we would’ve gone with the third rack though for silverware. That’s going to push you around $800
 
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As @AKAK posted, there are only about 4 actual manufacturers left despite all 'the brands' that are out there... Whirlpool/GE is the major...
We've replaced everything in the last 2 years and various repairmen have told us... be lucky to get 10 years out of any appliance made after 2010... so you might want to consider the extended warranties as part of the price especially washer/dryers/refrigerators

Price matching is tricky because the manufacturers switch model numbers for the exact same machine so each big box can charge whatever they want and not get matched.
 
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AuTX Buckeye said:
So dishwasher (10 years old) has a minor leak so it's time. any recommendations on brand/model? Wife does not want to spend a fortune on a new one and doesn't require all the bells and whistles (which is nice).
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While NJ's point is true that things don't last like they once did, a few follow up points:

Samsung is absolute trash almost across the board with appliances. Has been for a very long time.

LG is not as bad but not a lot better. There's a reason they both have constant sales and flashy gadgets. It's not because they work.

Whirlpool is eh. Their quality has dropped off a lot (and yes I know they own kitchenaid)

I settled into 3 options:
Kitchenaid- for the upper end of medium, if you buy the right one
Bosch - for the lower end of high end (and up)
Miele - the more expensive twin of Bosch

In february, I got this one for 949 (ended up getting more knocked off for some pickup problems by lowes).

To get something comparable, I was looking at 300-500 more, and maybe sacrificing in a few spots to go bosch. and that's if I could find it deliverable (which I often couldnt)

It's on sale for $899:

It's very nice, has a lot of the features in the 1500ish range of Bosch. It's not 100% silent but pretty quiet, and it actually dries things.

Actually drying is not a common attribute.
 
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buckeyebri said:
Yeah pretty much. What’s a fortune @AuTX Buckeye? Just bought a new Whirlpool as ours died after only 4 years. You can go anywhere from $400-$1000. I don’t know if the $1000 Bosch is worth it. I wish we would’ve gone with the third rack though for silverware. That’s going to push you around $800
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We LOVE our 3rd rack. Can put cups and mugs up there... or delicate stuff. I thought it would be about the silverware, but being able to overload that thing with cups and mugs is huge. I collect an absurd amount of cups for the amount of people in the house.

The Kitchenaid I linked above has an adjustable rack. So when the cups are too high on the mid level, lower it down.

Or you need more room below for a big item, raise it up.
 
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NJ-Buckeye said:
As @AKAK posted, there are only about 4 actual manufacturers left despite all 'the brands' that are out there... Whirlpool/GE is the major...
We've replaced everything in the last 2 years and various repairmen have told us... be lucky to get 10 years out of any appliance made after 2010... so you might want to consider the extended warranties as part of the price especially washer/dryers/refrigerators

Price matching is tricky because the manufacturers switch model numbers for the exact same machine so each big box can charge whatever they want and not get matched.
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I can’t justify the warranty. We did it on our lat one only to have it go out after the warranty. So $200 and whatever repair costs or buy a new one? That’s what your left with.
 
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