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HOF: Who Gets In Today?

Who gets the required 75% vote today?


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Bucky Katt: "I still don't see Mattingly being WAY, WAY, WAY better over that stretch."

How so? You just gave me 5 seasons where each player's respective averages were as follows:

Runs: 100.4 (DM) vs 94 (WC)

Hits: 205.6 (DM) vs 173.6 (WC)

2B: 44 (DM) vs 31 (WC)

HR: 27.4 (DM) vs 27 (WC)

RBI: 114.2 (DM) vs 104.4 (WC)

AVG: .332 (DM) vs .304 (WC)

You're telling me its even when Mattingly averaged 30 more hits, 13 more doubles, 10 more RBI, 6 more Runs, and hit 30 points higher than Clark??
 
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Bucky Katt: "I still don't see Mattingly being WAY, WAY, WAY better over that stretch."

How so? You just gave me 5 seasons where each player's respective averages were as follows:

Runs: 100.4 (DM) vs 94 (WC)

Hits: 205.6 (DM) vs 173.6 (WC)

2B: 44 (DM) vs 31 (WC)

HR: 27.4 (DM) vs 27 (WC)

RBI: 114.2 (DM) vs 104.4 (WC)

AVG: .332 (DM) vs .304 (WC)

You're telling me its even when Mattingly averaged 30 more hits, 13 more doubles, 10 more RBI, 6 more Runs, and hit 30 points higher than Clark??

I never said they were even for that stretch. Mattingly was better over his best five year period. I agree with that. Just not WAY, WAY, WAY better. I'm just arguing semantics regarding the number of WAY's merited. :biggrin:

Over the course of their respective careers, their total numbers ended up about the same. Clark definitely gets the nod for longevity, but Mattingly was better in his prime.

Also, Clark never came close to matching Mattingly's 1985 and 1986 seasons. I just didn't think a two-year period was enough for comparison. If it was, George Foster would be considered a better hitter than Eddie Murray. :)
 
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Before the 94 strike, baseball was my first sports love. With that, I will say two things.

1) To date, Don Mattingly is the best pure hitter I have ever seen. I dont think anyone this side of Tony Gwinn worked at it harder, and if he didnt hurt his wrist/back, this Will Clark comparison wouldnt even be a footnote.

2) Although I agree he had 1 pitch, the Goose at his peak was the most dominant closer I have ever seen. When he came in, everyone knew the game was over. It seemed like the opposing hitters would just swing and hope they hit the ball.
 
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1) To date, Don Mattingly is the best pure hitter I have ever seen. I dont think anyone this side of Tony Gwinn worked at it harder, and if he didnt hurt his wrist/back, this Will Clark comparison wouldnt even be a footnote.

Agreed from '85-'88 Donnie Baseball was amazing. He had the most picturesque swing I have ever seen. Its a real shame he retired before winning a ring.
 
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NYB: "1) To date, Don Mattingly is the best pure hitter I have ever seen. I dont think anyone this side of Tony Gwinn worked at it harder, and if he didnt hurt his wrist/back, this Will Clark comparison wouldnt even be a footnote."

Excellent points. Props will be forthcoming ..

But to add to this: Mattingly was, from 1984 to 1987, THE BEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL. Period. There are anti-Yankee people who will put on their goggles and jump down my throat, but its the truth. An informal poll of the players in 1986 even bore that out.

In those years, the Hit Man was good for 100+ runs, 200+ hits, 40 to 50 2B, 30+ Homers, 110+ RBI, & a .330+ Average each and every season. Those totals were astronomical in the mid-80's, and matched by NONE of his peers. In those days, you either had a Carew-Gwynn-Boggs type who hit .330 with no power/run-production, or the Murray-Murphy-Strawberry-Schmidt who hit homers with a .260 to .301 Average. Mattingly was the only player in baseball who did BOTH. Tack onto the fact that he was the run-away winner of the Gold Glove every season and one of the best defensive players in the history of his position, and you get what type of player that I'm talking about.

He was destined to be the next LOU GEHRIG. And I've never seen a player who was ever put in the Iron Horse's category.

Now, in mid-season 1987, Mattingly developed back spasms. He was put on the DL for the first time in his career. These were physical problems that really surfaced in the next season, as he returned from the DL to tie Dale Long's Major League record by Homering in 8 straight games, starting with his 1st game back. He also set a ML record with 6 Grand Slams in 1987.

In 1988, Donny's back bothered him again - he played through it, but he finished with then-career lows in RBIs (88 - his first season under 100), and Batting Average: .311.

In 1989, Donny rebounded, healthy again, (most people forget this) to finish 2nd in the AL in RBI with 113. By his previous standards, his numbers were not as impressive, but he was still one of the best players in baseball. Just not THE best anymore.

In 1990, his back completely collapsed, missed 60 games, and the freefall of back injuries that would plague the tail end of his career really came to a head.

That's not to say there weren't highlights: Donny was still the Yanks' best clutch player in those seasons, he hit .304 in his 2nd to last season in '94, and he was the Yanks' best player in his lone post-season series in 1995: led the team with a .417 AVG against Seattle. But overall, his back never allowed him to be the player that he was, or the sure-fire HOF'er that he should have been.

NFBuck: "Its a real shame he retired before winning a ring."

Donny's only shot at a ring was lost because of the Players Strike in 1994. The Yanks had the best record in the AL at 70-43 when the strike hit. People forget: they had a great shot to win it all that season too: we could've been looking at 5 rings in 7 seasons if not for Gene Orza, Don Fehr, and Bud Light. You Yankee haters should be thanking your lucky stars for the Strike.
 
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I still remember the Saturday Afternoon games on NBC. They had that great montage at the beginning of great players from the past and (then) current day. Right as they said "Baseballs majesty" they showed a great shot of that beautiful Mattingly swing. He was the biggest thing going in the mid-late eighties, and appeared destined to be the next Yankee great. A lot of people don't realize he was a pretty small guy by traditional power hitting standards. I think he went about 5'10, 185. I have ALWAYS absolutely loathed the Yankees, but I loved Mattingly. I collected his cards like crazy when I was a kid. I think I had over 50 of his 1986 Fleer card alone. It really sucked that his body ended up betraying him, ultimately leading to his retirement one season before the Yankees started that great run.
 
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NYB: "1) To date, Don Mattingly is the best pure hitter I have ever seen. I dont think anyone this side of Tony Gwinn worked at it harder, and if he didnt hurt his wrist/back, this Will Clark comparison wouldnt even be a footnote."

Excellent points. Props will be forthcoming ..

But to add to this: Mattingly was, from 1984 to 1987, THE BEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL. Period. There are anti-Yankee people who will put on their goggles and jump down my throat, but its the truth. An informal poll of the players in 1986 even bore that out.

In those years, the Hit Man was good for 100+ runs, 200+ hits, 40 to 50 2B, 30+ Homers, 110+ RBI, & a .330+ Average each and every season. Those totals were astronomical in the mid-80's, and matched by NONE of his peers. In those days, you either had a Carew-Gwynn-Boggs type who hit .330 with no power/run-production, or the Murray-Murphy-Strawberry-Schmidt who hit homers with a .260 to .301 Average. Mattingly was the only player in baseball who did BOTH. Tack onto the fact that he was the run-away winner of the Gold Glove every season and one of the best defensive players in the history of his position, and you get what type of player that I'm talking about.

He was destined to be the next LOU GEHRIG. And I've never seen a player who was ever put in the Iron Horse's category.

Now, in mid-season 1987, Mattingly developed back spasms. He was put on the DL for the first time in his career. These were physical problems that really surfaced in the next season, as he returned from the DL to tie Dale Long's Major League record by Homering in 8 straight games, starting with his 1st game back. He also set a ML record with 6 Grand Slams in 1987.

In 1988, Donny's back bothered him again - he played through it, but he finished with then-career lows in RBIs (88 - his first season under 100), and Batting Average: .311.

In 1989, Donny rebounded, healthy again, (most people forget this) to finish 2nd in the AL in RBI with 113. By his previous standards, his numbers were not as impressive, but he was still one of the best players in baseball. Just not THE best anymore.

In 1990, his back completely collapsed, missed 60 games, and the freefall of back injuries that would plague the tail end of his career really came to a head.

That's not to say there weren't highlights: Donny was still the Yanks' best clutch player in those seasons, he hit .304 in his 2nd to last season in '94, and he was the Yanks' best player in his lone post-season series in 1995: led the team with a .417 AVG against Seattle. But overall, his back never allowed him to be the player that he was, or the sure-fire HOF'er that he should have been.

NFBuck: "Its a real shame he retired before winning a ring."

Donny's only shot at a ring was lost because of the Players Strike in 1994. The Yanks had the best record in the AL at 70-43 when the strike hit. People forget: they had a great shot to win it all that season too: we could've been looking at 5 rings in 7 seasons if not for Gene Orza, Don Fehr, and Bud Light. You Yankee haters should be thanking your lucky stars for the Strike.

Sloopy,

Do you think that the fact Donnie Baseball was on shitty teams has something to do with his not getting more love for the HOF?

BTW, you do realize you can quote someone really easy by highlighting their text and just clicking on the quotation box icon on the top of the screen?

It would save you some time.
 
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Thump: "Do you think that the fact Donnie Baseball was on shitty teams has something to do with his not getting more love for the HOF?"

Yes and no. Mattingly's career totals don't justify election to the HOF. Period. He's my favorite athlete of all time, and I'm the first person to say that.

However, going back to Bucktastic's example, what's the difference between Mattingly and Puckett? They have almost identical career numbers, they were both great players whose careers were cut short by injury, so what's the difference when one is a 1st ballot inductee and the other won't make it?

Its gotta be the fact that Kirby played on two World Series teams, had a walk-off WS home run, and played in two classic 7-game WS. That's the only difference I can see ..

"BTW, you do realize you can quote someone really easy by highlighting their text and just clicking on the quotation box icon on the top of the screen?"

Yes. I prefer to do it this way.
 
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